Bishop Schneider: So I would invite, especially those bishops who are unfortunately persecuting those Catholics who love the traditional liturgy, who are marginalizing them, and appeal to Pope Leo. Please heal these wounds. Please come to help your children, I think, not simply to go back to some more pontifical. I would suggest that Pope Leo could simply go back to Pope Pius V. I would suggest, please, Holy Father, be scrupulous in appointing and carefully checking the candidates, because one bishop can destroy spiritually and can create ruin.
Joe McClane: By the way, my name is Joe McClain. I host a radio program called A Catholic Take, where we look at the world through a Catholic lens. I’d love for you to hang out with us. If you like it, give it a thumbs up and let us know what you think in the comments below. Recently, His Excellency Bishop Anthony Schneider was on a charter pilgrimage, and he also spoke at a conference in London. It was beautiful. I’m going to link to an article from Edward Penton summarizing this, but His Excellency from Kazakhstan joins us this morning. Good morning to you, Bishop Schneider. Thank you for your time.
Bishop Schneider: Thank you for your invitation. God bless you.
Joe McClane: God bless you too, Bishop, thank you. I want to talk first about the pilgrimage experience. It looked very beautiful. It looked inspiring to see so many people. I mean, it was a sold-out pilgrimage again, and so many young people too, from all over the world. What was your experience?
Bishop Schneider: Yes, I can confirm this from my own experience. I saw the true joyful expression of the Catholic faith, and the joy that we are Catholics, full Catholics who love the Catholic faith as it has always been believed, and who love the liturgy as it has always been celebrated through the centuries. It was such a natural feeling from these young people, mostly, and even families with children from several countries. We could really experience the truth which we confess in our faith, the one Church. I believe in one Church, which is Catholic, which is universal, which is apostolic, which is holy.
This holiness and universality of the faith could especially be experienced in the celebration of the traditional rite of the Mass, which united these huge crowds on Pentecost. It was an open-air Mass, with almost 20,000 people. What impressed me most was that they were so recollected, so silent, so prayerful, and united together in the Latin Mass singing, praising God with this liturgy, which has been celebrated by innumerable generations of Catholics all over the world. We could really experience, I would say, the beauty and strength of the Catholic faith, in spite of so many problems and crises in our day.
Joe McClane: I have to believe that. I’m sure you felt this way. I know I do. I have to believe other Catholics see this, and they must think, Wow, we have a lot of problems in the world right now, but this is incredibly inspiring. This feels hopeful.
Bishop Schneider: This gives hope. So I would invite, especially those bishops who are unfortunately persecuting those Catholics who love the traditional liturgy, who are marginalizing them, even if these same bishops appeal to synodality, listening to others, and inclusivity. But one category is persecuted in our day in the Church. These are Catholics, young people, families, children, who love the Mass of their ancestors, who love the Mass of the saints. Only for this reason, they are humiliated and excluded. This is an injustice. We must state this. We must say this with all our concern. This must be healed.
I appeal to Pope Leo, please heal these wounds. Please come to help your children who are persecuted, who are humiliated by so many bishops. Please help them and reintegrate them. Give them the freedom only to worship as the Lord has always been worshiped, through the traditional liturgy. Amen.
Joe McClane: Well said. In the conference you gave in England last week, you talked about encouraging Catholics to be faithful, to remain joyful, steadfast, and fearless against the attacks of this world and from within the Church, remembering that their reward will be the crown of life. I’ve got to say, Bishop, based on what you just said, there seem to be more Catholics interested in welcoming people who struggle with gender identity, same-sex attraction, and other struggles in life, but they are not as welcoming to Catholics who want more of the rich tradition, history, and patrimony of the Holy Mother Church. That seems very disordered to me.
Bishop Schneider: In fact, it is contradictory and shows that the words these bishops use about welcoming inclusively are simply not true. Therefore, this experience in the charter pilgrimage is a very powerful manifestation that the Church remains always the same through the centuries, that the Church, which loves tradition, is not rigid. It is not nostalgic. It is faith. It is love for what the saints loved: this liturgy, this faith, these catechisms, and therefore it will survive. This will give the Church new force, new spiritual strength. Therefore, we must help to renew the Church with a solid, clear Catholic faith, to put Christ at the center, His uniqueness, to put Him at the center in the liturgy during Holy Mass, to bow down to adore Him, to give God the first place, and to prioritize the salvation of souls. This is what the Church has always done. This is what the apostles and the saints did, and this the Church will do until Christ comes again. And this we must promote.
Joe McClane: In your statements in the conference, you talked about the need, almost, I took it this way, about how over the centuries, heresy has played a role in the faithful. In some ways, at least the way I understood it, heresy can almost be a gift, sometimes in the sense that it provides clarity. When we see heresy, we know what to focus on, and that gives the body of Christ the opportunity to, I want to use the word attack, but maybe that’s not the right word, it provides clarity. In our times, we have had a lot of opportunity to see clearly where the contrast really is, and we see it in places that should trouble us, like within the hierarchy of the Church. How do you think lay folks should respond to these difficulties within Holy Mother Church?
Bishop Schneider: I would not say that heresies are a gift. No, they are not a gift. Heresy is in itself an evil, and evil can never be a gift. But despite this, God is so almighty, as St. Augustine said, that He can draw from an evil like heresy a greater good for the Church. And in this sense, as Paul wrote in Corinthians, the heresies may reveal the good ones in the Church. So heresy is a kind of healthy provocation, provoking us to think more deeply about what we believe, to seek arguments and reasons to defend what heresy denies. It is an occasion, as always, the Church has done when she refuted heresies, to explain, to expose in a clearer, deeper way the divine truth revealed to us, and to show the beauty of the Catholic faith.
After the refusal of heresy and the clarity of the Catholic faith on the side of the magisterium, the truth shines more clearly and is more established in the Church. In this sense, we must understand heresies, but I repeat, heresies are evil. They are poisons. Therefore, the magisterium has the divinely given task to protect the flock from this poisonous influence, to give the fullness of truth, and also to invite heretics to come back, see the truth, and see the argument. As St. Augustine said, God permits heretics so that we can exercise patience and deepen our faith, and also to give the heretics the possibility to repent. The Church has always defended this treasure, which is the Catholic faith, entrusted to the magisterium. In our day, we must be hopeful, because the Church has always been capable of refuting heresies and establishing the beauty of truth, and she will continue to do so in our time.
Joe McClane: I wanted to ask you about some of the appointments coming out of Leo the 14th pontificate, because there are still concerns. It is still early in this pontificate, and I get myself in trouble sometimes if I sound too critical of His Holiness. But this Brisbane appointment—Bishop Shane McKinley is now the Archbishop of Brisbane—apparently, he embraces things like female deacons, or at least has made some public statements. He seems to have allowed some sort of object in his cathedral that looks like an idol. It’s confusing to the laity. What is your opinion of these appointments? Should we not worry about individual appointments, or should we?
Bishop Schneider: Of course, we should, because a bishop is a shepherd, and to him are entrusted the sheep. An archdiocese is an important portion of the Catholic Church, with many souls entrusted to the bishop. Therefore, a Catholic bishop must be an example of fidelity, unambiguous fidelity to the fullness, purity, and integrity of the Catholic faith, without any doubt, and he must be a defender of the faith.
If such a candidate is appointed who has already proven to undermine the clarity and integrity of the Catholic faith by his statements and behavior in his previous diocese, this is very sad and concerning. The Catholic Church is one family. Even if this does not touch your own place, we cannot live completely separated, saying, “This is my diocese, and I do not care what is happening in the Catholic Church.” That is not true. We must be one family, the Catholic Church.
It is not our task to criticize every act or government act of the Pope, but we must be concerned and pray ever more for Pope Leo, that he may receive from God awareness, scrupulous awareness, before he appoints any bishop. I suggest, Holy Father, be scrupulous in appointing and checking the candidates, because one bishop can destroy spiritually, can create ruin with his behavior. Even if there are no sexual or financial scandals, he can, by ambiguity on doctrine and teaching, damage his flock and the entire Church.
God will ask the Pope on the Last Judgment about every appointment which he made and which could damage the Church, which he made with conscience. Some appointments he accepts, but he must inquire. One of the Pope’s first tasks, after confirming the brothers in faith, is to provide good shepherds, unambiguous and without any doubt. He must take time, not hurry. In ancient times, even in the 19th and 20th centuries, before the Second Vatican Council, popes took time before appointing bishops. They preferred to leave a diocese vacant even for five days, ten years, rather than appoint a candidate quickly who could be dubious.
I ask Leo to take time, not to be pressed into quick actions. It is better to leave a diocese many years without a bishop. Families, priests, and the Holy Mass continue; they can live, pray, investigate, and then find a good bishop. I will only name two examples. St. Gregory the Great was accused by bishops in his time of taking too long to appoint bishops. He defended himself, saying, “This is my holy task. I will continue to take time before I appoint bishops, and I will seek them because they answer to the Pope. If there are no candidates, I will not appoint just anyone. We must only seek good candidates in the Church.”
I also suggest that the current Holy Father look to the example of his predecessors, Gregory the Great and other popes. I read in the Lives of the Saints by Butler that Pope Leo the Great was harshly criticized by the Lord for not paying enough attention to appointing bishops. He spent weeks in penance and prayer in reparation for this omission.
I would ask these holy popes, Leo the Great, Gregory the Great, to help our Church, and to help Pope Leo the 14th, that he may provide to the Church truly apostolic men, men of God, 100 percent faithful to the Catholic faith, prayerful men, fathers and pastors, really. Amen.
Joe McClane: Amen. Well said, Clinsey. I want to ask you a follow-up question on Cardinal Burke. His Eminence, Cardinal Burke, also said, I think, in the same conference you spoke at, that he had already spoken to His Holiness, Pope Leo the 14th, asking him to roll back the traditional custodial restrictions, back to something like the pontificate of Pope Benedict the 16th. That would be amazing. It would be wonderful if he did that.
When I watched His Eminence announce this, two things came to mind. Number one, it seemed like he was choosing his words very carefully. Number two, it seemed he was suggesting that Pope Leo might not do this for some time. In fact, Ed Condon, in a Pillar article, seems to suggest that Pope Leo the 14th may take as much time as Francis did to enact traditional custodial restrictions, which took eight years of his pontificate before he did that. Do you have a sense of the timing with Leo? It seems it might take some time to roll back these restrictions, but all the while, many Catholics, as we discussed earlier, are suffering under traditional custodial rules.
Bishop Schneider: I don’t know his methods of work, but I hope it will not take so long, because if there is an unjust situation, if there is persecution of his own spiritual children, I think a good father will not wait so long. I also think it is not simply a matter of going back to a pontificate model, but really, I would suggest that Pope Leo could reorganize the entire matter concerning the traditional liturgy, and go back entirely to Pope Pius the Fifth.
Pius the Fifth solemnly, almost canonically, established these ancient, reverent Roman liturgies, which were not the Tridentine liturgy at all. It was the old, constant, unchanging Roman Rite before the Council of Trent. It was canonized for all time by Pope Pius the Fifth. In some way, we can compare it to the canonization of a saint. A pope cannot decanonize a saint or forbid veneration when it has been universal for centuries. Similarly, Pope Pius the Fifth, holy Pope Pius the Fifth, in 1570, canonized this rite, saying it is for all times. Every Catholic priest has the right, and no one can forbid him, to celebrate this holy rite of the Mass.
No authority can prohibit it. These are solemn expressions. Therefore, I think Pope Leo the 14th should carefully study the Quo Primum document, the pontifical constitution of Pius the Fifth from 1570, regarding the constant use of this rite for all priests. He should liberate it in the most generous way. This is a treasure of the entire Church, and the Church has nothing to fear in giving freedom to this liturgy. On the contrary, it would be a great spiritual gift and advantage for the entire Church to grant complete freedom.
It is what the Church has always done: worship God in a sublime manner. This can only benefit the Church, and there is nothing to fear by avoiding casuistic, Pharisaic limitations and rules. Just as catechisms are free to teach the faith, the liturgy, which the Church has always celebrated, should be free. This will contribute to the true renewal of the Church, the true missionary work of the Church, and the true evangelizing work of the Church in our day.