Timothy Gordon: The interview you’re about to watch, Parish Orbans The Retrogrades, is an excellent one, full of insights about Fatima, and it is relevant to us in 2022. Now it’s with a great, honored, venerated guest, Bishop Athanasius Schneider. I just wanted to give you, Parish Orbans, The Retrogrades, a little heads up, because he came to me from Kazakhstan on Skype, which is a modality I don’t use much anymore for these interviews. It was pre-recorded, and we had to do a little audio cleanup, which was 90% effective. It’s good. We didn’t do this live because the audio needed quite a bit of cleanup. Without further ado, I give you the interview as it happened. I think it’s really good. Just struggle through the 10% of it that’s not perfectly cleaned up. It’s much better than what would have originally been presented. God bless you all.
Greetings, Parish Orbans, The Retrogrades. Today, I bring to you a most important interview with the auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of St. Mary in Astana, Kazakhstan, His Excellency Athanasius Schneider, who comes to me today to discuss the meaning of the March 25th consecration to humanity, including Russia and Ukraine. What does it mean for a pope to consecrate all of humanity with Russia and Ukraine named? Is this sufficient to satisfy the conditions left by the Virgin Mary to Sister Lucia dos Santos in 1917? Also, what is the broader meaning of Russia in the second secret given to Sister Lucia at Fatima in 1917? We even get into the meaning of the third secret, the most hidden and mystical of all, the three-part secret given in 1917. Without further ado, I am most honored to welcome for the first time on Parish Orbans The Retrogrades, His Excellency Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Thank you for joining us, Your Excellency. Would you please lead us in an opening prayer, and then we can get down to business?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: In nómine Patris, et Fílii, et Spíritus Sancti. Amen.
Ave María, grátia plena, Dóminus tecum; benedícta tu in muliéribus, et benedíctus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta María, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatóribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostræ. Amen.
Glória Patri, et Fílio, et Spíritui Sancto. Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc, et semper, et in sǽcula sæculórum. Amen.
In nómine Patris, et Fílii, et Spíritus Sancti. Amen.
Timothy Gordon: Pope Francis announced on March 15th that 10 days later, he would be doing this consecration. Of Russia, within a week. On March 20th or 21st, depending on what part of the world one is in, he modified the direct object of the consecration from Russia and Ukraine exclusively to humanity, including Russia and Ukraine. From what most people speculate, this will still include a specific naming of Russia and Ukraine. My first question is, is this sufficient to satisfy the conditions left by the Virgin Mary in 1917 at Fatima?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I think Our Lady did not say exclusively Russia or only Russia. We do not find this limitation, and therefore we cannot be more restricted than already. The essential point is that she asked to mention Russia. That is essential, and then humanity, meaning all the nations of the world, is also mentioned. It is not invalidating, because it will be pleasing to God. When something is substantial, something additional or accidental cannot substantially change it. Russia is a member of all humanity, and therefore, I do not consider this element invalid.
Timothy Gordon: That’s very reassuring. So as long as the essential components, namely Russia, and I guess Ukraine, but mainly Russia, are included in the consecration done on March 25th, it will satisfy the conditions named by Our Lady of Fatima, correct?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes. In 1917, Our Lady spoke about Russia. At that time, much of present-day Ukraine was part of Russia. Therefore, mentioning Ukraine now is historically meaningful. We cannot interpret her words as public revelation; they remain private revelation received by Sister Lucia. A private revelation can be adapted to changing historical circumstances without changing its substantial meaning. Mentioning Ukraine or all nations of the world does not change the essential meaning as long as Russia is explicitly mentioned. Pius XII in 1952 consecrated Russia and the Russian people, and John Paul II in 1984 did not fully fulfill the requirements, even in union with all bishops, because he did not mention Russia. Pope Francis, however, is doing this with all bishops and mentioning Russia and Ukraine, and this cannot be considered invalid. Authority does not lie with people on the internet; only God and the Church have the authority to interpret. We must trust in God’s providence and the graces Our Lady promised.
Timothy Gordon: What do we make of Sister Lucia’s judgment on the under-specified nature of John Paul II’s March 25, 1984, consecration, which did not explicitly name Russia?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: There are two different affirmations of Sister Lucia. In 1985, she declared that the consecration was not fulfilling, and this was historically published in a magazine in Fatima. Then, in 1989, probably influenced by the breakdown of communism in the East, she stated it was valid. She was human and could interpret specific historical situations in a way that could be erroneous. This is my explanation.
Timothy Gordon: The famed Vatican exorcist, Father Gabriel Amorth, gives us the following account of what happened on March 25, 1984. From 10 feet away from John Paul II, Pope John Paul II, on that day, the morning of the consecration, at the very last moment, just before John Paul II rose to deliver the consecration of Russia, a cadre of prelates suddenly surrounded him, says Amorth, and urged him in sharp whispers, “Don’t name Russia, don’t name Russia.” The Cold War was ongoing, and in the post-conciliar era, after Vatican II, the Vatican had undergone and executed something called Ostpolitik, a strict policy of not adding to tensions between the Soviet Union and the West. According to Father Amorth, Ostpolitik dictated that the March 1984 consecration of Russia could not be done fully faithfully.
Is Ostpolitik still at work, according to the slight change Pope Francis made on March 20 or 21 this year to what he had announced a week earlier, on March 15? Previously, he said he was just going to consecrate Russia and Ukraine. Now he is going to do all of humanity, but we can hopefully rely on the fact that he will still name Russia. Is this still Ostpolitik, or what’s going on?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: But as we discussed in the beginning, I repeat it, since the substance, Russia, is mentioned, there is no meaningful doubt for me that they can add all the other nations of the world. It would not be invalidated, since the requirement to mention Russia is fulfilled. Our Lady did not say the Pope has to consecrate only Russia, exclusively. We have to accept this. I repeat, private revelations are not public divine revelation, untouchable. They can have some modifications during changed historical situations. We cannot treat private revelations as inspired, unchangeable scripture. Scripture cannot be changed, but private revelations can, because they were not inspired by God. They were taught by Sister Lucia, according to her subjective impression.
This is determined by the Church. Church authority can interpret revelation or make an application of revelation. As long as the substantial elements of the private revelation are observed, such as the consecration to the Immaculate Heart, not simply to Our Lady, the mention of Russia explicitly, and doing it with all the bishops, then something else that is not substantial does not invalidate it. I repeat, this is what I already said.
Timothy Gordon: Thank you for that clarification, Excellency. May I ask a bit of personal speculation? As a lifelong Fatima enthusiast, I note that the consecration is a simple prayer and at the same time a direct order from heaven. It seems bizarre that six or seven popes have failed to accomplish this very simple consecratory prayer, including for Russia. Should we attribute all these failures to something more, in other words, a spiritual or preternatural intervention by the demonic? Am I reading too much into it? Is this the only conclusion?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, that is the question. In 1929, Our Lady said to Sister Lucia that the pope should consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart. We don’t know, but if the popes had done it in 1929, maybe the communist system would have collapsed then, and maybe we would not have had the Second World War in the same way. We do not know, but it is possible. We do not know the mysteries of God, why Popes Pius XI, Pius XII, and others did not do the consecration. It is a mystery that cannot be discovered. It is part of the mystery of God and also respects the human freedom of the Pope. A Pope is inspired by the Holy Spirit but can make prudential or other errors. He is human. In this case, the Popes could have done it, but we do not know why. It depends on their freedom and understanding. We cannot simply explain it. It is a mystery.
Timothy Gordon: Speaking of papal discretion, while I enjoyed the great honor of this interview, I have a two-part question regarding the third secret of Fatima. Number one, do we know why John XXIII, the pope who convened Vatican II, opted against obeying the order of heaven given by Mary in 1917 to Sister Lucia, which required the third secret to be kept secret until 1960? Do we know why he chose not to do so? Question two: Is the secret fully revealed after the year 2000? The Vatican took an extra 40 years, from 1960 until 2000, to reveal it. Even after it was revealed, many believe only half was revealed, the visual part, but not the textual part. What is your view?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: We now know the entire third part of the secret of Fatima, which was published in 2000 in the presence of the Pope and Cardinal Ratzinger. I cannot imagine the Holy See deceiving the public. John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger could not lie. Therefore, we have to believe that what was published in 2000 is really the third part of the secret.
It shows a pessimistic scenario: the Church persecuted, the world hostile, destroyed cities, corpses of priests. This is not an optimistic image. It represents a world hostile to the Church. When John XXIII read this in the past 1960s, he had already announced the council. He began his pontificate with optimism, seeing the Church in springtime, a new Pentecost. The world seemed friendly. This attitude contradicted the third part of Fatima. Therefore, he judged not to make it public.
In the biography of Sister Lucia, Our Lady told her she could reveal the text of the secret, but not her explanation of it. We must distinguish between the text and the explanation. Perhaps the explanation was given to the Vatican, but it was not published because it is not a direct part of the secret. The Holy See did not lie in 2000. Speculating further is unnecessary. The text and scenario are clear; we do not need further revelation to know the crisis in the Church.
Timothy Gordon: For clarity, your view, Excellency, is that the third part of the vision shared by Mary with the Fatima seers is fully revealed after 2000, but Mary’s explanatory words were never appended to the vision. Correct?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes. The 2000 text is the third part of the secret, as Our Lady told the children. The explanation may exist separately and may have been given later to Sister Lucia. We must distinguish the two.
Timothy Gordon: Fascinating. Now, faithful Catholics, particularly Americans, are loath to trust mainstream media. You are close to the situation in Russia and Ukraine. I know you may not say much, but what should a faithful Catholic, particularly in the West, think about the conflict in the context of Fatima?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I do not speak on politics. I lament and regret the war. We should pray and make a crusade of prayers that this war stops as soon as possible because it is damaging people on both sides and fomenting hatred. Mainstream media contributes to this hatred, which is wrong. We must do everything we can to reconcile people, call for peace, and pray to Our Lady to help those suffering materially.
Timothy Gordon: Thank you, Excellency. One final question: what are the errors of Russia that Mary referred to? Isn’t this phrase inclusive of more than simple Marxism? Does it include materialism, transgenderism, and feminism?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: In 1917, the main errors were Marxism and a materialistic style of life. This is a grave error to build social, public, and private life only on material values. It includes atheism, removing God from schools and parliaments, and the destruction of the family. This is even worse in Western societies than in Russia. Gender ideology and attacks on the family are part of Marxism, as Marx and Engels stated.
Timothy Gordon: And feminism, Excellency? Wasn’t feminism, after all, a sort of proto-transgenderism, an attack on marriage and family?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Feminism was partly introduced by communists, but not as in the Western world. Women were obliged to work full-time, and children were educated by the state. It was an attack on marriage and family, as Marx and Engels already stated. Feminism spread more widely in the Western world, destroying family structures.
Timothy Gordon: Thank you, Excellency, and thank you to our supporters. Remember to like, subscribe, and click the notification bell. Support the show directly via Patreon at Timothy J Gordon, and for personal advocacy, go to RealEstateForLife.org to move to a red state.
This has been a real honor, Bishop, especially 72 hours before the March 25 consecration. Your words give consolation, wisdom, and light. Thank you again.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: You are welcome. May we be strengthened in our Catholic faith, renew our hope, and remember that the Immaculate Heart will triumph. Let us be good, loving children of Our Lady, and pray with Saint Francisco, Saint Jacinta, Sister Lucia, and all the angels. May God pour out abundant graces and let them bear fruit. I give you a blessing:
Dominus vobiscum, et cum, spiritu tuo. Et benedictio dei omnipotentis, Patris et Filii et spiritus Santi descendant, super vos et maneat semper. Amen