Steve Cunningham: Everybody, Steve is coming at you with a special guest. If you’ve probably already heard of him, Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Your Excellency, thank you for coming on and speaking on this topic, and thank you for your time.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: You’re welcome.
Steve Cunningham: Now, we’re having some technical difficulties, so I’m talking through the phone, people, so bear with us. First, we’ll get right to it. What is the kingship of Christ?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: The kingship of Christ is a very evident truth throughout Scripture. It teaches that Jesus Christ, the incarnate God, is not only Lord of heaven but also Lord of all earthly realities. He became man so that all things, as St. Paul says in his letter to the Ephesians, should be united under His kingship and rule. In 1 Corinthians, St. Paul says that Christ, in His humanity, must reign, regnare in Latin. He must be king. All creation, as St. Paul writes, was created through the Son and for Him. Every being was created for Him, and therefore all aspects of human life, even social life, are meant to be under the rule of Christ.
Of course, each reality, spiritual and corporeal, body and soul, has its own order, but all were created for Christ. The private life of individuals and the public or social life must both be ordered to Him. In the tradition of the Church, starting in the early centuries, the Fathers taught that the Church is the soul of humanity, comparable to the body and soul. There’s an expression from the end of the second century that says: as the soul is for the body, so Christianity is for humanity.
Therefore, the Church and society must work together; they cannot be divided. This expresses the social kingship of Christ. Christ must first be King in the individual; every man must accept Him as Lord through faith and baptism. But human beings are social by nature, and the entire society should proclaim Christ as Lord. Neutrality toward God in society is impossible; practical atheism results from rejecting Him.
The foundations of Christ’s kingship are clear in Scripture, in the teaching of the Fathers, and continuously in the Magisterium, especially in Pope Pius XI’s beautiful 1925 encyclical on the kingship of Christ. We must accept and renew this teaching.
Steve Cunningham: Can a nation survive, specifically, I’m talking about the United States of America, without recognizing the kingship of Christ? The Constitution allows for religious freedom. Can such a society endure?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: No, it cannot. Human beings, individually and socially, are created for Christ. That is the meaning of creation itself. When a society rejects Jesus Christ, it cannot maintain well-being or peace. Eventually, moral and cultural decay set in.
We’ve seen this in modern history. Dictatorships and totalitarian systems, like those following the French Revolution, did not endure. The Communist Revolution in Russia lasted seventy years but ultimately collapsed spiritually and economically. Hitler’s Nazi regime proclaimed a thousand-year Reich, but it lasted only twelve years because it rejected Christ directly.
Even today, modern society, particularly after the Second World War, is increasingly anti-Christian, rejecting Christ and the Church. Such a society, over time, will descend into chaos and collapse. Recent manifestations of violence, instability, and fear during crises reveal this truth: without God, ultimately, a society cannot survive.
Steve Cunningham: You mentioned fear. What would you say to fellow Catholics who are terrified by what they see on TV or in the media? It seems like they aren’t trusting in God. How can they overcome that fear and place their trust fully in Him, instead of worrying about everything around them?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: A Christian, a believer, should never fear, never. We believe that God is with us. As Scripture says, If God is with us, who can be against us? This is a truth we must renew in our souls. Whoever believes in God is never alone because Christ never abandons those who trust in Him.
A faithful believer must also recognize that they are connected with others who believe in Christ, members of the Church. We are all one body in the Mystical Body of Christ, even if we live far apart geographically. We are united in Christ, especially when we receive Holy Communion, where we are most intensely joined with all others who receive worthily.
Christians, through the sacrament of Confirmation, receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit. One gift, in particular, is crucial for these moments: the gift of fortitude, the courage to be fearless. As soldiers of Christ, we must not be afraid because our commander, Jesus Christ, is infinitely powerful, and the holy angels fight alongside us. Trials today remind us to renew this gift of fortitude, and even in the rite of Confirmation, the anointing is a symbol to show that we must not fear.
Steve Cunningham: Yes, we need a little slap in the face to wake us up! Thank you for emphasizing fortitude. What would you say to people who accuse Catholics of pushing religion on society, or legislating morality from a religious standpoint?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Such accusations are mistaken. These issues are not primarily religious; they are rooted in natural law, common sense, and the inherent dignity of human beings. For example, defending life against abortion isn’t just a Catholic teaching; it reflects a universal natural law: the right of the innocent to live. Similarly, defending marriage as the union of one man and one woman is based on the natural order written into human nature.
We are defending humanity, reason, and society itself, not imposing religion. Societies that violate natural law, by killing children, redefining marriage against nature, will inevitably collapse. History shows us this: civilizations that reject God and the natural moral law experience moral decay, social instability, and eventual destruction.
Steve Cunningham: Yes, societies that trample God’s law and natural law cannot survive.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Exactly. And when humanity reaches extreme levels of blasphemy and rejection of God, God intervenes. The punishments and chastisements He sends are foretold in Scripture, particularly in the Book of Revelation. These acts are meant to awaken people and call them back to righteousness. Of course, even the good suffer at times, but they should see these events as a purification of the Church and of souls. Just as Peter says, trials and persecutions purify Christians like fire purifies gold. We must view even potential punishments in the light of God’s providence. He governs all things with love and uses trials to educate humanity. We must remember that this life is temporary. Our true goal is eternal life, heaven, and Paradise. The world will end, but God will create a new heaven and a new earth, and we will be part of His eternal plan.
Steve Cunningham: What do you see? The Consecration of Russia. I’ve been telling people to say, if this is peace, I don’t want to see what war looks like. The last 20 years have been anything but peaceful. Is there anything outside of a drastic miracle that we might see in the next 10 years to correct anything?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I think we have peace. God will only grant it to humanity and to the church. Under the condition that we observe His commandments. We cannot continue to offend God and expect Him to grant us peace. Therefore, we have to make every effort to invite humanity, society, to observe the law of God, at least the natural law of God, and then to proclaim Christ to all people with love, of course, not with pressure but with convincing, with zeal, that Christ is the only Savior. Only in Christ will humanity have lasting peace. Only in Christ can we achieve true fraternity. He is the peace. So I think the first step is to reestablish the observance of natural law, common reason, common sense, and reason in human society, a true human culture, and at the same time to proclaim Christ everywhere, inviting people to accept Him as their king.
Steve Cunningham: What are some practical steps? People might be listening and saying, “Yeah, I’m on board, it’s great, but how do I do that?” Are there any practical examples you can give to laity, Catholic politicians, etc., of ways to move toward proclaiming Christ the King? I’m thinking like Garcia Moreno, for example. Are there any other ideas that come to mind?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes. A practical approach could be to first appeal to people of goodwill in society to join us, because we have to start with the foundations, which are natural law. To reestablish the family, the natural family, the values of the family, to gradually eliminate the genocide of abortion, and to spread good literature, books, and conferences on natural law, the kingship of Christ, and the beauty of a society centered around Christ and the Christian faith. We can try to restore Catholic culture, the beauty of architecture, churches, music, and theater. We have a rich Catholic inheritance from 2000 years, and we should build upon it, accepting what is true, honorable, and beautiful, as St. Paul said.
We need to make coalitions with good people, even non-Christians or non-Catholics, because today the battle is not between the enemies of the church and the Catholic Church, but between the Antichrist and humanity. The entire human family is at stake with attacks against life and family. The first step is to build Catholic culture and organize prayer groups to proclaim Christ the King. So these three steps are: natural law, people of goodwill, and restoring Catholic culture, values, and prayer associations.
Steve Cunningham: Are there any modern nations that are doing that, or close to doing that, or thinking about doing that, or is nobody close right now?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Today, the world is difficult because we live in a globalized world, and the anti-Christian, anti-human mentality spreads instantly through mass media. All people are in some way influenced by this mentality against natural law and Christ. But thanks be to God, there are several countries, especially young people, who still keep the natural instinct for truth, beauty, and natural law, and are trying to reintegrate Christian faith and Christ on a social level.
In Poland, some groups want to promote Christ the King publicly. In Hungary, the government promotes family and natural law. There are some steps, but very few. Since the political scenario is globalized and interconnected, with some centralized control, it is difficult for a single country to have an impact. But Christian countries in Europe could form coalitions to promote Christian values, natural law, and culture, and make international coalitions to support politicians who uphold Catholic culture.
Steve Cunningham: Would you recommend anyone run for office to help promote the kingship of Christ, if they have the opportunity, means, and knowledge? Not just anyone jumping in, but Catholics getting involved to influence politics and change the course of action?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It depends on the country. It would be more difficult in the United States because of its secular political tradition. The Protestant tradition never promotes Christ the King as a social kingship. This is a Catholic idea and tradition from the New Testament, the Fathers of the Church, and the 2000 years of history.
We could, however, approach Protestant brothers to explain the meaning of Christ the King, especially with the encyclical of Pius XI, Quas Primas. Only Catholics alone will not achieve results today. We need coalitions with good Protestant and evangelical believers to promote this idea in society. On a local or regional level, we could dedicate a city, town, or village to Christ, to His Sacred Heart, so He will be the king of hearts in that area. Then perhaps extend this to a county or region. Small steps are worthwhile. Even if one village proclaims Christ or consecrates itself to Christ the King, it is progress. We have to proceed gradually to spread and proclaim Christ the King.
Steve Cunningham: That’s an excellent point because many people get the scope if they look at the global idea of it, and even that goes through evangelization, start local, your neighborhood, your village, and then eventually it spreads out. I thought about getting Michael Davies’ book on the Kingship of Christ. TAN Books has it in bulk, 100 for, I think, $1 each, and just pass those out to people. I gave one to a senator about five years ago. Are there any books besides, I think yours, Christopher Wendt’s, Quas Primas, obviously, and Michael Davies’ book? Are there any other books that you would recommend people read?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Maybe people could also read the work of St. Augustine on The City of God. Of course, it is not easy in every part to read this, but it gives a global idea of the victory of the City of God against the city of evil, the city of man. This work of Saint Augustine also gives a realistic vision of what is happening in history while proclaiming victory. It is a work from the first centuries, for example, so we have the texts and the works of our time, but also of these first Fathers of the Church. Augustine’s famous work on The City of God is one example. We can also read biographies of good Catholic Christian kings who were truly dedicated to Christ the King, such as St. Louis, the King of France, or the last Catholic emperor, Blessed Emperor Karl of Austria, and spread knowledge of their lives and deeds. This can encourage people by showing that even kings and emperors were entirely dedicated to Christ. Another example is a Portuguese king, I don’t remember his exact name, in the 16th or 17th century, who brought the royal crown and placed it at the feet of Our Lady, declaring her queen. Since then, Portuguese kings did not wear the crown because they gave it to Our Lady. Concrete examples like these should be spread. Scholars or good Catholic politicians could write books with these examples. Another good politician from the 19th century is the Spanish Nozo Cortez, a very committed Catholic. His writings and life are examples that should be presented concretely.
Steve Cunningham: A final question for you, I’ll let you go. Church and state, I know this is a relatively new phenomenon, basically from the time of the French Revolution, but what is the role of the church in the state? We know the Church teaches there is no separation of church and state, but is the church supposed to be above the state, or the state above the church? Today, it seems the state is above the church. Historically, it seems the church guided the state.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: We must observe the order God gave for things to function well. When we pervert God’s order, there is chaos, no peace, and no progress. As we mentioned earlier, the faith or the Church has the function of the soul toward the human being or society. The soul guides the body, and in some way, God put the soul over the body to guide it. Similarly, God gave the Church the task of giving orientation and guiding the state and society with moral directions, natural law, and common sense. Both the church and state have competencies and must respect each other’s roles, like the soul and the body. If the soul demands constant prayer without rest, the body must resist to maintain health and continue serving God. The body respects the soul, and the soul respects the body.
The Church cannot take over purely temporal, scientific, or economic matters; these belong to the government. The Church’s role is to remove sin, not handle material concerns like climate change or waste management. Likewise, the government has no competence in liturgy. Some governments today have dictated how to distribute Holy Communion, which is solely the Church’s competence. The state must accept moral guidance from the Church and uphold duties such as worshiping God according to natural law. How to worship is a question the government must ask the Church. The Church teaches there is only one true manner, which is to adore the Most Holy Trinity in the Catholic Church established by Christ. There is only one Church, the Church of Christ, which is the Catholic Church on Earth.
In summary, the state and the Church, faith and society, must work together. This relationship can be compared to reason and faith, like a bird with two wings; both are needed to rise. Reason and faith, nature and grace, state and Church, must be synthesized. This synthesis is the way of God.
Steve Cunningham: Amen to that. I just forgot to say thank you for this. Some priest friends of mine ended Communion in the hand because of your book. At one of their parishes, they introduced intention and passed out your book to every parishioner. After about a month or two, they gradually returned to the regular Altar style. Communion in the hand went away, and now nobody at the parish receives in their hand. They all kneel at the altar and receive on the tongue. I know of two parishes in one particular diocese that have done this. So not only did Bishop Schneider write the book, Christopher Vincent, but he also wrote Dominus Est, which is a must-read for anybody out there.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, we have to be happy and desire that Christ our Lord in the Holy Eucharist be more venerated, respected, and adored, interiorly and externally. As St. Thomas Aquinas said in his Eucharistic hymn, in relation to the Eucharist, do all you can or dare to give Christ as much honor as you can. This is expressed in Latin in his hymn, which we prayed last week on the feast of Corpus Christi. It means, Lord, visit us now, me personally, my family, our church, and our world with graces according to the honor we give to the Eucharist. By honoring our Lord in the Eucharist, he will give us grace.
Steve Cunningham: Your Excellency, thank you very much for your time. Can we get a final blessing before you go?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes. Dominus vobiscum, et cum, spiritu tuo. Et benedictio dei omnipotentis, Patris et Filii et spiritus Santi descendant, super vos et maneat semper
Steve Cunningham: Thank you very much for your time.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: You’re welcome.