Dr. Taylor Marshall: You were selected by the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. Correct me if I am wrong to be a visitator for the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth. You spoke about this in a chapter of your book Christus Vincit. I encourage everyone to read this book, Christus Vincit. It is an interview account with His Excellency, and I cannot stress how powerful this book is. Your Excellency, I wept in the opening chapters as you described your childhood, your parents, and the environment of faith in which you grew up in a persecuted society and culture. In the book, you speak about your encounter as a visitor of the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth and their seminary life. Could you speak to that? Many people ask what the status of the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth is. Is it schismatic? Is it irregular?r Is it not recognized? Can you share what you shared in the book and add anything more? Yes.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: First, we have to ask what is schismatic. According to the tradition of the Church, schismatics are people who, in principle, refuse the authority of the Pope. For example, the Orthodox are usually not called heretics but schismatics because they reject in principle the authority of the Pope. The act of episcopal ordination without papal approval was not punished automatically with excommunication in the old canon law. This came only with the new code of canon law. The Church, for many centuries, did not consider the act of ordaining a bishop without papal approval as a schismatic act.
Church history shows that in the first millennium, the majority of bishops were ordained without asking the Pope for approval. They simply ordained bishops while maintaining unity with the Pope by mentioning him in the Eucharistic Prayer or consulting him as needed. All these saints we know, such as Saint Athanasius and Saint Basil, were not ordained with the approval of the Pope. We can give many examples. Therefore, this does not pertain to the deposit of faith. The act of ordination can be done in different ways. In an emergency situation which to my opinion, is the situation in which we are living even after the introduction of the new Mass which is substantially a kind of protestantization of the center of our life, which is the Holy Mas,s even when celebrated correctly the texts of the new Mass such as the offertory prayers and the second canon are without doubt protestantizing. I say this only in passing.
Continuing with your question, Archbishop Lefebvre did not have a true schismatic intention when he ordained bishops because he asked the Pope until the last moment to approve this. Usually, schismatic bishops do not care to ask the Pope. The Eastern Orthodox do not write to Rome. Other groups, such as sedevacantists, do not ask the Pope for permission either. Archbishop Lefebvre wrote several letters until the last moment with respect and reverence, asking to be ordained with the approval of Rome. This is a demonstration that he did not act with a schismatic intention. It is obvious, and we must be just and fair and keep in mind the great tradition of the Church. During the ordination of the bishops, he also mentioned the Pope in the canon of the Mass. This is proof that he desired to remain united with Rome. In a specific, difficult historical situation, he could not act otherwise. He did this not to create a new parallel Church, as he said, but to give real help and service to the Roman Church itself. He believed that future popes would thank him, and I am sure this will come. We are now seeing this.
After Pope Benedict the Sixteenth lifted the excommunication penalty in 2009, they were no longer excommunicated. When people are not excommunicated, they are not schismatic; otherwise, the Church would not revoke the penalty. This concerned only the four bishops, not the priests. According to canon law, strictly to the letter, the priests and bishops may be considered suspended in celebrating Mass because they have no incardination. But the situation changed because Pope Francis gave all priests of the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth ordinary faculties for confession. How can a suspended priest be an ordinary confessor? It is a contradiction. In my opinion, Pope Francis, with this act, implicitly lifted the suspension. The same applies to the faculty to assist at marriages. How can a suspended priest assist at a canonical marriage? In the provision of the Holy See, it is stated that after assisting at the marriage in some cases, he may also celebrate the Mass for the spouses. How can the Pope permit a publicly celebrated Mass by a suspended priest? We would have to say that at that moment, he is not suspended, and then immediately after the Mass, he is suspended again, which is absurd. The same would apply when he hears confession. Inside the confessional, he is not suspended because the Pope gave him faculties. Then he leaves the confessional and becomes suspended again. This is absurd because it interprets the law in an excessively strict manner. We become like Pharisees and scribes because Church law is pastoral and aimed at the salvation of souls. When we stress the human part of the law too much, we become legal positivists and forget the eternal salvation of souls, which Christ warned against.
Therefore, this is a new and substantial situation for the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth after the lifting of the excommunication, the granting of faculties for confession, and the faculty to assist at marriages, even with the possibility to celebrate the Mass for the spouses. In fact, there are bishops around the world who permit priests and bishops of the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth to celebrate public Masses in exceptional cases. Many bishops and priests in the world commit liturgical abuses and sacrileges publicly, and they are not punished. They cause more harm to the faith and to the Church than the priests of the Society who piously celebrate the Mass as always, even though there remain unresolved questions of positive Church law, which in extreme situations must be subordinate to the salvation of souls.
Dr. Taylor Marshall: I remember that Archbishop Lefebvre said that in England, Methodists were being allowed to have an invalid ordination ceremony inside a Catholic cathedral. Yet he said that they could not say the Mass for which that cathedral was built. The bishop would not allow them to offer the old Mass for which all those private altars were built. There was a Methodist ordination in the cathedral, yet they could not say the old Mass there. That is a state of emergency.