Joe Mathiesen: Welcome back to Rome Boys. On this episode, we welcome His Excellency Bishop Athanasius Snyder.
Chris Martin: Bishop Athanasius Schneider was born to German parents on April 7, 1961, in the Soviet Union. Bishop Snyder himself received his first Holy Communion in secret since the practice of the faith was outlawed under the communist regime. In 1973, he left with his family for Germany. He later joined the Canons Regular of the Holy Cross of Cumbria, where he was given the religious name Athanasius. He was ordained a priest in 1990. In 1997, he received a Doctorate of Patrology and in 1999 became a professor of Patristics. In 2006, he was consecrated Bishop at the Altar of the Chair of Saint Peter in the Vatican. He was then assigned to the position of auxiliary bishop in the Archdiocese of Astana. He is the General Secretary of the Bishops’ Conference of Kazakhstan and titular Bishop of Selena, Switzerland. He is the author of several books, and his most recent book is The Springtime That Never Came.
Tony Frasco: I appreciate your book. It is hard-hitting; you are not afraid. I am picturing Jesus Christ saying Be not afraid, and you answer the questions with transparency and boldness. I appreciate that. The title of your book is The Springtime That Never Came. We are hoping for it, the new Pentecost and a revival in our Catholic Church. What is necessary, Bishop Athanasius, for that to happen? What needs to occur for this new springtime?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It needs to go back to the roots that we have because today, after the council, there is the impression that bishops, clergy, churchmen, and laypeople are more concerned about the leaves but do not care about the roots. When we do not care about the roots, we will not have beautiful leaves and fruits on the tree. This has been the situation for the last fifty or sixty years. We forgot that the most important root is to give Christ to put Christ at the center of all, to put God, the supernatural, the grace of God in the center. This is the way Jesus Christ, the apostles, and the saints showed us.
This is why in the last decades the church diminished the centrality of Christ and the importance of the supernatural. Therefore, it could not bear enough fruit. The first step is to put God and Christ at the center of all, starting with our liturgy. As we pray, we show who Christ is for us and the centrality he has. We have to improve adoration and worship to be truly Christocentric and then proclaim the truth of Christ and of the Church, which sets us free. The full truth, not a half truth or a quarter truth, but the full truth that Christ gave us and that the Church transmitted unchangingly through the centuries.
From this, our moral and Christian life should improve as we strive for holiness, the vocation to holiness for all in the Church. This was one of the main points of the Second Vatican Council: the call to holiness for all members of the Church, especially priests and families. This is the way that will bring the true springtime of the Church.
Chris Martin: You mentioned Vatican II, and I know that can be a controversial topic for some. What are your thoughts on Vatican II and the Consilium that followed?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: The Second Vatican Council was a meeting of bishops, a solemn meeting to discuss theological and pastoral issues for our time. It is not the word of God but a way to explain the word of God and the faith. We must not overstate a council. A council has only a subordinate role to serve the Church. For the first time, it did not propose teachings in a definitive or infallible manner but took a pastoral approach to explain themes of the faith.
The most important topic the Second Vatican Council wanted to transmit was the awareness that all members of the Church, especially laypeople, are called to holiness to live the will of God in their own conditions and to strive for holiness. This is, in my opinion, the main point of Vatican II, calling laypeople to be apostles, witnesses, and testimonies in our modern world.
Other topics were not yet mature and were proposed as declarations in a low doctrinal manner, not at a high level. These formulations sometimes caused doubts and misinterpretations because the language was ambiguous. This unfortunately happened in the last decades, especially regarding the uniqueness of Jesus Christ and the Church in relation to other religions. We must take this seriously. I hope and believe that the Church will correct ambiguous interpretations and formulations of Vatican II regarding the uniqueness and absoluteness of Jesus Christ.
Other religions are not the will of God, not in a positive sense. God tolerates other religions as he tolerates and permits our sins, but the only way is Christ and the Catholic Church, which he founded. We must proclaim this to all people with love and respect. We must tell Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists that the only way God wills for them is to believe in Jesus Christ and be part of his mystical body, the Catholic Church.
Tony Frasco: Wow, that was great. Here in the United States, we are in the midst of this Eucharistic revival among the bishops. For me, as a teacher, I want to help people believe in the Real Presence of the Eucharist. That is huge. In your wisdom and knowledge, what would you say? How can we get Catholics to believe in the Real Presence? How can we get the 20 to 30 percent who currently believe to 100 percent to believe that Jesus Christ is present in every tabernacle in the world?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: First, priests must clearly teach the faith about the Real Presence in their homilies on Sundays and in catechesis. It is important to repeat the traditional, clear, and unambiguous teaching about the Eucharist, including examples from the lives of the saints.
It is not only teaching. We must also improve the manner in which we celebrate the Eucharist. The celebration must be reverent and sublime so that it speaks for itself; this is something holy and exceptional. When people approach Jesus Christ in the Eucharist during Holy Communion, it should be done with the utmost reverence.
We are not angels; we have a body. We must express through our bodies that God is present in this little host. We must kneel. We must open our mouths like children because Jesus said If you do not receive the kingdom of God like little children, you will not enter it. These gestures must be practiced: kneeling for communion, receiving on the tongue, and avoiding the loss of fragments of the host, which often happens today.
These gestures demonstrate our faith in the Real Presence, not a symbolic presence. If it were only symbolic, there would be no need to care about fragments or gestures. Protestants, for example, do not kneel before the Holy Eucharist. The Church has practiced reverence for over a thousand years. Saints always knelt and received Holy Communion with extreme care.
We must also show reverence to the tabernacle, placing it at the center of the church, not in a corner. Jesus in the Eucharist is the center, even physically. Priests and people should face the same direction during consecration toward the Lord, not around a table like the Protestant style. These ritual elements are indispensable for strengthening faith.
Finally, Eucharistic Adoration outside Holy Mass is important. People must be invited and taught the value and spiritual benefit of Eucharistic Adoration. Chapels for adoration should be available.
Chris Martin: I love how the message is simple and straightforward. It is clear and true. Thanks for being real about that and not trying to reinvent the wheel.
Tony Frasco: Jesus started it all. Let us stick with what he started, the roots, as you said.
Chris Martin: What are some of the challenges of being a bishop today?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Today, it is challenging for a bishop because we do not have enough support from Rome or from the Pope to teach clearly and defend the doctrine of faith, even regarding important moral issues. Speaking against abortion, defending marriage, opposing the influence of homosexuality and LGBT ideology in the Church and the world, these are critical issues. Few bishops speak clearly and defend the truth of family, marriage, chastity, the holiness of the Eucharist, or the defense of life.
Bishops today lack support from Rome and other Episcopal colleagues. Defending the holiness of the Eucharist, reintroducing Communion kneeling and on the tongue, and protecting the Lord in the Holy Eucharist are difficult tasks. Those who do this are a tiny minority and should be supported by the Pope, but this is not happening.
There are contradictions, such as opposing abortion while allowing public figures who promote it to receive Holy Communion. Or opposing gender ideology while supporting people who promote it. These contradictions make it difficult to defend the truth.
I compare the situation today to the fourth century during the heresy of Arianism. That heresy denied the divinity and eternity of the Son of God and was widespread. Only a few bishops resisted the heresy and refused to compromise doctrine. Saints like Athanasius, Basil, Gregory of Nazianzus, and Hilary of Poitiers upheld the truth, and in time it triumphed.
Similarly, today we hope that bishops who defend the truth will persevere. As Bishop Athanasius said in his time, it is not fitting for bishops to serve the times; we must serve the Lord.
Chris Martin: Yes, and how great do we need that now as well?
Tony Frasco: For such a time as this, yes, absolutely. When I first saw you, it was on Raymond Arroyo’s World Over Live. Then I started reading your books, and your name kept popping up. We originally had Bishop Joseph Strickland on. He is in a neighboring diocese, and we have had him as a role model because he is a voice of truth and preaches Jesus in the Catechism. You are the same way.
Chris Martin: Have you talked with him?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Oh yes, I know him personally.
Chris Martin: Oh, great. How did you meet?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I think it was four years ago in Dallas for an event in honor of Blessed Emperor Karl of Austria. A small prayer group was invited, and Bishop Strickland also came. I met him there, and since then, I have been in contact with him.
Chris Martin: Great. There is much similarity in speaking the truth, and the truth is simple.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It is a blessing for your country. Hopefully, there will be more bishops like Bishop Strickland so the springtime of the Church will come sooner.
Chris Martin: You were saying, and I instantly thought, not to diminish your role as a bishop, but as I reflect on the points you mentioned, I am having conversations with my daughters. She is in an online Catholic homeschool program. The first student she encountered announced to the class that she goes by certain pronouns that do not match her gender. Nobody responded; she just said it. My daughter Joan noticed it and said she is trying to be something she is not, so she has to say it out loud. I thought, What wisdom from a 13-year-old child.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, this is beautiful because it depends on education. This is a sign that you educate your children well. To promote common sense, we have to restore common sense.
Joe Mathiesen: Seems to be a trait people are losing these days, common sense.
Chris Martin: It is not so common.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: We have to restore simple common sense. I was recently in Africa visiting communities there with traditional liturgy. The people are simple and have good common sense. They could teach Europeans and Americans what common sense is.
Chris Martin: Yes, it reminds me of original sin, the desire to have knowledge to be like God. That got in the way of us living simply and enjoying the garden. We are blessed, but we messed it up.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It is human nature to screw things up. Yes, human nature and natural law are works of God the Creator with His wisdom and love. The current gender ideology is a revolt against God’s order. We have to restore the meaning of natural law, which is God’s wisdom. All Christians and people of goodwill must make an alliance for common sense.
Tony Frasco: I wanted to ask about your story from your book when you were with souls in purgatory at the monastery. There was a miracle, or at least a connection with these souls.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It was not for me personally, but I was in a monastery where events occurred involving a soul in purgatory with God’s permission to ask the sisters for prayers and to communicate truths. I learned about this through the sisters. The words from this priestly soul were full of wisdom, very simple, not exaggerated, not mystical, but the truth as seen in God in eternity. The message is important: to be faithful to God and our duties, to live seriously and not superficially. Everyone must give an account to God. Use the means He gives, the sacraments, prayers, and works of penance, to live according to His will.
Also, the communications showed the need to love God ever more. The deepest reason for the soul’s repentance in purgatory is that they did not love God enough, did not respond fully to His immense love during life on Earth.
Chris Martin: Wow, what you said makes me think. I often want to write notes about what I learn from guests on the show or at conferences. But not to sound mystical, what you said felt like it was written on my heart. It is not something I need to write down to remember. It is who I need to be, what I need to do personally. That is powerful. Thank you for sharing.
Tony Frasco: It was unique to your book that you shared that story. Thank you for sharing that personal story. We have forgotten the souls in purgatory. They need our prayers, and someday we will, too. Many of us, God willing, are going to be saints, but many still need those prayers.
Chris Martin: I have a question. Is there an apostolate in your diocese that is effective, whether for bringing new people into the Church or spreading the good news?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: We have an apostolate of prayer in our diocese. We have a Perpetual Adoration Chapel day and night, 24 hours, in the cathedral. It is slowly attracting people. God is hearing these prayers, and slowly people are coming, even non-Christians, some from Muslim backgrounds. Some of these non-baptized people are drawn by the Eucharistic presence of Jesus and have asked for baptism. We prepared them for Holy Baptism, and they later became adorers of the Eucharist.
This, in my experience, is the most important and deep apostolate, Eucharistic Adoration. Apostolates also need practical methods. We have an image of Our Lady, an icon, that makes pilgrimages through the families of our diocese or within parishes. This also bears fruit. It is simple, but God loves simple methods, not complicated ones.
We also have catechesis. Every day on YouTube, we provide short teachings about the faith. This is an important method of apostolate. We also prepare young people for marriage with movements like Pure Hearts for adolescents and youth, teaching chastity and modesty. To help families, we have a family center for days of recollection and prayer. This is the main work we are doing.
Joe Mathiesen: What a great idea. How simple. Prayer. You do not have to complicate things.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Keep it simple. Prayer and signs of holiness, sacredness, like pilgrimages, icons, and formation in faith. Amen.
Chris Martin: It is interesting how many conversion stories are Christocentric because of the Eucharist. Time and time again.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I can tell you a story from our town. A doctor focused on psychiatry helped people with depression and personal problems. He was not Christian, possibly from an Islamic background, but not practicing. He read the Gospel because it helped him in his work. One day, he heard about our 24-hour Adoration Chapel. Out of curiosity, he came to see what the atmosphere was like. Entering the chapel with the Blessed Sacrament, he was moved by the presence. He was not baptized, and he said he never experienced so much peace and inner peace. Afterwards, when people came to him with problems or depression, he started prescribing a simple remedy: spend one hour in the Adoration Chapel.
Joe Mathiesen: That is awesome. I bet his PPO could approve that.
Chris Martin: That is a cheap prescription. Insurance loves him.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I am not baptized, right? Prescription: spend one hour in the Adoration Chapel.
Tony Frasco: Yes, Jesus, the great healer.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Some priests today advise yoga or meditation. There are yoga centers in some Catholic convents. But here, a non-Christian was prescribed one hour before the Blessed Sacrament. From those who followed this, at least three or four were later baptized. They were healed by our Lord in the Eucharist.
Joe Mathiesen: Yes, I am assuming he was baptized as well, later.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Later, this doctor was baptized in our church. He became a Christian. He has since passed away, but he was already elderly. He took the name of the Prophet Jela.
Tony Frasco: Wow. Thanks for sharing. Yes, beautiful grace, the power of the Eucharist. If we bring people to Him, He can do the rest.
Joe Mathiesen: Yes, well, speaking of the Eucharist. We talked earlier about the Second Vatican Council and how some changes occurred moving from the traditional Mass to the Novus Ordo. Obviously, things did not get implemented the way they were supposed to. How do we get that back on track? Do we start over? Is it time for another council? What do we do to straighten things out?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I hope not to do another council. The Council itself did not bring a springtime for the Church; it brought confusion. In our life, I would avoid another council. The Pope and bishops need to stress and teach the unchanging faith of all ages, the true faith of our forefathers and the saints, preserved in catechisms like the Baltimore Catechism.
We need to restore holiness and sacredness in the Holy Mass and in the reception of the Eucharist. We must improve the celebration of Mass and maybe slowly introduce elements of the traditional Mass into the new Mass so that both forms become closer. We must stress the centrality of Christ, adoration, and the supernatural. The Pope should issue clear statements, perhaps even ex cathedra pronouncements, against the main errors spreading today. This approach is easier and would have more effect than a new council.
Joe Mathiesen: That seems practical to me. Was not the point of the council and liturgical changes to preserve Latin and some elements of the old Mass? The current enormous order we celebrate now is not what the council intended. It was not fully implemented in the new form.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Exactly. The Second Vatican Council’s Constitution on the Liturgy stated that Latin must be kept in the Roman Rite; it is not optional. The council allowed some vernacular language, but never meant for the Mass to be completely in vernacular. The original 1965 reform during the council was careful; the first part was in the vernacular, the Eucharistic Prayer remained in Latin, and mostly in silence. Ceremonies, genuflections, and crosses all remained.
Council fathers were happy with this reform. But after the council, under Bugnini in Rome, the liturgical commission implemented a revolution. That is our current Novus Ordo Mass; it does not correspond to what the council intended. We must return to the noble order, restoring elements of the traditional Mass to reflect the council fathers’ intentions.
Joe Mathiesen: What can we do as laypeople? Merge them so they are almost indistinguishable.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: As laypeople, you have no decision-making power here; this belongs to the clergy and Rome. But we can propose changes. For example, in a parish, you can ask your pastor to use Latin during the Eucharistic Prayer, Gregorian chant, celebrate Mass facing the Lord, install a communion rail, and so on.
However, today, even if a parish priest does this, the bishop may not support it and could forbid it. Ultimately, this must come from Rome, a Pope instructing bishops to implement these practices. We must pray for a clear, courageous Pope who will restore faith and liturgy in integrity according to the perennial tradition of the Church.
Chris Martin: Thanks for the clear explanation. We appreciate it. This is one of the big reasons we wanted you on, to discuss this with someone who gives clear guidance. I have one last question: Is there a group of like-minded bishops, such as yourself and Bishop Strickland? Is there a way you communicate around the world?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: No, to my knowledge not. It is difficult and delicate. If we were to do this, the nuncios and Rome would likely know about it. They might label such a group as schismatic or suspicious, so bishops are cautious and prudent on these issues.
We have some communications on a personal level, of course, but not as an organized group. Unfortunately, not yet. It is difficult because again, you would be labeled. This should come from Rome. Catholic bishops are not like Protestants or Anglicans, who can establish their own groups. We are Catholic bishops under Peter under the Pope. The Pope is the head of the Episcopacy according to the Lord’s will.
The Pope should coordinate and encourage groups of bishops to meet, promote the truth, clarify the faith, and promote the holiness of the Eucharist. Then bishops will feel supported and protected by Rome. Until then, we do what we can in our own dioceses to encourage people, especially families. Fathers and mothers, you are our hope. You are the domestic churches. From your families, I hope and believe good priests will arise, your sons and grandsons, who will help restore the beauty and springtime of the Church.
Tony Frasco: We will pray for that.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Your sons and grandsons will come as good priests who will again help restore the beauty and springtime of the Church.
Joe Mathiesen: Amen. Yes amen. Thank you for all your time.
Chris Martin: Absolutely. We cannot thank you enough. We have noticed the sun coming up in your window as we have been talking.
Tony Frasco: The springtime is here.
Joe Mathiesen: On our end, you blessed us with some rain; we have not had rain in months.
Chris Martin: Bishop, would you give our listeners a blessing?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Dominus vobiscum, et cum, spiritu tuo. Et benedictio dei omnipotentis, Patris et Filii et spiritus Santi descendant, super vos et maneat semper
Tony Frasco, Joe Mathiesen & Chris Martin: Now and Forever.
Joe Mathiesen: Your Excellency, thank you for joining us. We cannot thank you enough.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It was a joy for me. Continue your beautiful apostolate. God bless you.
Chris Martin: Anything we can do to help, please let us know.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I hope maybe we can meet one day in Texas.
Chris Martin: Yes, maybe in October. In the meantime
Tony Frasco, Joe Mathiesen & Chris Martin: Be bold. Be real. Be Catholic. God bless you.