Paul Thies: Well, Your Excellency, thank you so much for joining me today. It is a pleasure, as always, to be speaking with you, and I’m very grateful for your time. Would you lead us in prayer so we invite the Holy Spirit to be present among us?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: In nómine Patris et Fílii et Spíritus Sancti. Amen.
Ave María, grátia plena, Dóminus tecum; benedícta tu in muliéribus, et benedíctus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta María, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatóribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostræ. Amen.
Glória Patri et Fílio et Spíritui Sancto, sicut erat in princípio et nunc et semper et in sǽcula sæculórum. Amen.
In nómine Patris et Fílii et Spíritus Sancti. Amen.
Paul Thies: All right, excellent. Today is a momentous time in the life of the church. I wanted to talk with you about the Tridentine Mass. As you know, I am a child of the Novus Ordo church, my whole life, and only recently have I started attending the Tridentine Mass and learning the richness of our liturgical tradition.
A lot of my friends are Novus Ordo attendees, and they are asking me questions about the news reports. I’m not sure how much you hear in Kazakhstan, but the FBI is raiding people’s homes, focused on the Latin Mass. They see news stories about the rescript Cardinal Roche put out, affirmed by Pope Francis, about drawing approval for the Mass to Rome.
People who never thought about the Latin Mass are now aware of it. It’s interesting how this has raised awareness. My lead-off question for you is, the efforts to restrict the Tridentine Mass are gaining momentum. Most people are aware that this movement is coming from Rome, where power has been centralized, and the authority of bishops seems to be usurped.
Particularly in America, the bishops’ power to authorize the ancient liturgy locally is now being remanded back to Rome for approval. There are indications we may see a widespread suppression of the ancient liturgy despite individual bishops supporting it. What will the consequences be upon the bishops, the church, and the world if such oppression and repression of the Latin Mass occur?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I think the Vatican and Pope Francis will not succeed in suppressing the traditional Mass de facto, in reality, by law. They are trying to extinguish it by law, but this is a treasure of the church, a treasure for the entire Church of all times. It was celebrated almost in the same form for at least a millennium. We have texts and proof from many saints, who loved and cherished this Mass. It remains for all times due to long, continuous use and objective value. It cannot be suppressed. It is a property of the entire church, not of Pope Francis and his counselors.
This Mass expresses clearly the sacredness, sublimity, mystery, and truth. For some high-ranking churchmen in the Vatican, the traditional Mass represents a kind of continuous reproach, and it bothers them. They feel uncomfortable with its clear expression of God’s centrality and the sacrifice of the Cross. They want to abolish it because it does not fit their ideological understanding of the Mass as a horizontal, informal gathering, like a meal or banquet.
But they will not succeed, because the traditional Mass is the work of the Holy Spirit. You cannot fight against God. If such a decree for total suppression comes, the traditional Mass will go into the catacombs, already partly taking place in secret places. In the catacombs, it will flourish and slowly renew the true life of the church.
Paul Thies: I love that. You brought up Saul. I was sharing with some friends this morning, and Saul came up. He thought he was doing God’s will while persecuting Christians, but he was really following his own will, not abandoning himself to God’s will. Only when Christ intervened did he see clearly and convert. Perhaps this is what we are seeing with our leaders.
If it were up to you, what priorities would you select for the church rather than focusing on animus against the Mass? Why not address issues like lack of belief in the Real Presence, lack of vocations, or other real crises instead of the manufactured crisis that the Tridentine Mass supposedly contributes to divisions?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: The priority should be prayer, specifically the Eucharist, because it is the heart of the church. With a weak heart, the entire body is weak and lacks energy. We must restore the dignity, sublimity, and sacredness of the Holy Eucharist, Holy Mass, and Holy Communion.
Communion in the hand is one of the deepest wounds in the Mystical Body of Christ today. Receiving God Himself is reduced to a minimum of respect and awe. During Communion in hand, fragments fall on the floor, trampling our Lord. We must restore reverence and defend Him.
The church should focus on the next generation of priests, forming men of God rather than a greater number of priests. Seminaries must screen candidates carefully to prevent immoral influence, including homosexual tendencies and careerism. The priority in priestly formation is spiritual life, prayer, asceticism, moral life, and friendship with Christ, more than intellectual development.
The church also cannot renew without a new Episcopacy. Bishops and cardinals must be carefully selected, and these are, in my opinion, the key priorities.
Paul Thies: You inspired me. The pressing need is recognizing holiness, to return to reverence. My priest has said that in times of confusion or lack of clarity in the church, one must tighten down and return to structure, not loosen it. Allowing indiscriminate absolution or Communion only exacerbates the problem.
You mentioned the catacombs. After the Second Vatican Council, around 1970 under Pope Paul VI, the Tridentine Mass was almost universally suppressed. If that happens again, do you anticipate it being different this time, and why?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It is different because the traditional Mass is already widespread. Since the 1980s, Pope John Paul II granted permissions, even asking bishops to be generous in 1988. Pope Francis now says the opposite: do not allow the traditional Mass, or I will admonish you.
Since the 1980s, a generation has grown up exclusively in the traditional Latin Mass, families, and priests. You cannot destroy this with one document; it is impossible and against the law of nature. They will go to the catacombs. Historically, the more people are persecuted there, the more they grow. This will happen again with Pope Francis’ persecution of good traditional Catholics.
Paul Thies: It reminds me of the Desert Fathers, where stripping away worldly noise allows the voice of God to be heard more clearly. Perhaps the catacomb life strips away false teachings so we can focus on holiness and reverence for the Mass, the Eucharist, and ultimately the kingship of Jesus Christ. Are there particular apparitions, saints, or examples giving you hope and direction in these times?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: We have the great message of Our Lady of Fatima, so timely for our time, promoting devotion to her Immaculate Heart, practicing the five First Saturdays, reparation, and prayer of the Rosary. A spiritual crusade, with the Rosary as our weapon, can overcome spiritual enemies.
We also have great saints and the importance of Catholic families as domestic churches. Large families can produce a new generation of good priests and religious. Today, more young families love the traditional Mass, catechism, and family life. Contemplative sisters and brothers in cloistered life also pray for the world and the renewal of the church. These are signs of hope in the midst of crisis.
Paul Thies: Beautifully said. You grew up in a restrictive environment, the Soviet Union. What advice do you have for the faithful in the times ahead?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Do not be afraid. To be afraid is a contradiction to being a Christian. Christ is always with us. St. John writes, “This is the victory that overcomes the world, our faith, our holy faith.” Be strong in faith, pray as a family, read the Catechism, and read the lives of the saints who endured persecution. Trust in Christ; He is always with you.
Paul Thies: Beautiful. Your Excellency, will you pray a blessing to close us out today?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Dominus vobiscum
Paul Thies: Et cum, spiritu tuo.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Et benedictio dei omnipotentis, Patris et Filii et spiritus Santi descendant, super vos et maneat semper
Paul Thies: Thank you, Bishop Schneider. Welcome.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Praised be Jesus Christ.