Terry Barber: Welcome. Welcome to the Terry and Jesse show. Jesse’s out of town today, but my good friend Dr. Ed Moz is joining me. We have an amazing story, an amazing show, because we have Bishop Athanasius Schneider, auxiliary of Estonia, Kazakhstan, and he just met with Pope Francis, because it was an ED Lemina visit. Every five years, bishops go to meet the Holy Father and give a report. I think there were 10 bishops in his area who went to meet the Holy Father. Bishop Athanasius Schneider, welcome to the Terry and Jesse show.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Thank you. God bless you.
Terry Barber: Well, he’s blessing us big time. Dr. Ed, Amen, and you know, Bishop Athanasius, we have something in common, the Opus Angelorum, the work of the Holy Angels. Father William Wagner is my spiritual father, and I understand he taught you in the seminary down in Brazil. Is that true?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes.
Terry Barber: Well, he’s the one who formed me for the last 30 years to keep me on the straight and narrow road. So I know that he told me a lot of good things about you. And so we’re honored to have you, Bishop Athanasius. Can you tell us about your March 1 meeting with the Holy Father, what went on there? Can you set the stage so we understand the kind of things that happened when you met the Holy Father and the purpose of the meeting?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It was a meeting with the bishops of the Central Asian region. First, we spoke about our dioceses and our countries, especially our relationship with Muslims, because we are living in Muslim countries. The Holy Father said we could express our concerns, even our criticisms, and he likes a very free discussion. One of the bishops raised the question about the problem of the admittance of adulterers to Holy Communion in the church. Another issue was the admittance of Protestant spouses to Holy Communion in mixed marriages. One bishop also expressed concern about the practical spread of homosexuality in the church. The Holy Father answered every question, but it was in a more general way. It was not possible to deepen the questions or concerns.
I raised my question about the problem with the phrase in the Abu Dhabi document, which speaks about the diversity of religions. I read the Holy Father a short text where I asked him to correct this expression. He answered that one has to understand the diversity of religions as the permissive will of God, that God permits. I insisted that in the same phrase, it also mentions the diversity of sexes or races, and so it cannot be a permissive will of God when it comes to the diversity of sexes and peoples. The Holy Father conceded that yes, this could be misunderstood. I asked him to make a public declaration to clarify this. He did not answer clearly regarding my request for a concrete declaration.
Terry Barber: Thank you for saying what you said, and thank you, Holy Father, for having the humility to listen to what you just said. I think of another bishop here in Los Angeles, Bishop Robert Barron. He said a church that is not precise about what it teaches can be a corrupt church. What he meant was we need to be very careful with our phrasing so there is no ambiguity, and it is very clear what we teach. Bishop Athanasius, I really appreciate you using biblical language, like adultery, rather than the term people use now, irregular unions. Your clarity is what we want as lay people. We want to know why we believe it and where it is in scripture. I appreciate that. Dr. Ed, what’s the next question you want to ask the bishop?
Dr. Ed: Your Eminence, as a medieval historian, I think about troubled periods in the church’s history. For example, there was the crisis of having three so-called popes at the same time, the Western Schism. As you probably know, it was a Holy Roman Emperor, a political figure, who stepped in to help the church do the right thing. All three men resigned. My general question is this: what role is there for laypersons or even heads of state in persuading the church to do the right thing when that is not happening? Do you see a role for that, or is that just something historical?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: From history, the emperors in the 11th century, the German emperors, were Catholics and believers. They were very concerned about the chaos in Rome and the unworthy popes, so they intervened to give the church worthy popes. This was not canonically correct to depose a pope, because there was no canonical norm to depose a pope. No one can depose a pope. Lay people must first pray and implore divine intervention, and God knows how to intervene to stop such a crisis. Secondly, lay people must make private or public appeals to a pope who is not fulfilling his duty correctly, together with the bishops. They must make appeals, profess the truth publicly, especially if the pope is teaching wrongly or presenting things ambiguously. Depending on the historical situation, lay people and bishops must make a public profession of truth about problems and errors spreading over a certain period of time.
Terry Barber: I have a question. You mentioned in an article from LifeSiteNews that the cause of clerical sex abuse is a lack of a deep and personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I wish we heard more of that from our bishops and priests, the need for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. You said something about when a seminarian or priest does not have that deep and personal relationship with Jesus, his constant fidelity to a life of prayer and his personal love for Jesus is weakened, making him easy prey for temptations of the flesh and other vices. Bishop Athanasius, can you expand a little on that? I think you nailed it. The problem right now is too much connection with the world and not with Jesus Christ.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, this is evident from the teaching of our Lord in the Gospel. Our Lord said, When you are not united with Me, you cannot do any good. When a priest or seminarian does not have a deep relationship with Christ, he is truly exposed to diverse temptations. We must stress this most important aspect in the life of a seminarian, priest, or bishop: to have a deep relationship in prayer with Christ and in personal moral life. This is the greatest and strongest protection against temptations and errors. For me, this is very evident.
Dr. Ed: Thank you. Just to follow up on that, Your Eminence, nowadays there are many enemies of the faith who see the world differently than we do. They say the world is overpopulated or that we need anti-Christian legislation. Yet these people seem to be advising the Vatican at forums or conferences. That does not seem right to many Catholics, that avowed atheists or secularists have influence over the church.
Terry Barber: We have to take a break. You’ll answer that question right after this quick break. On the Terry and Jesse show, we have Bishop Athanasius Schneider being interviewed about our church, and we’ll be back in just a few seconds with more from Bishop Athanasius Schneider and Dr. Ed Moz here at Virgin, most powerful radio clarity with charity. We’ll be right back.
Terry, Jesse, and Dr. Ed. That’s right. Welcome back to the Terry and Jesse show. We have as our very special guest today His Eminence, Bishop Athanasius Schneider of Kazakhstan, who recently met with the Holy Father. We have been putting questions to him, and he has been generous enough to share his answers.
Before we went to break, I was asking the bishop, there seemed to be, I’ll give you a concrete example, Your Eminence. There is a man named Jeffrey Sachs who believes the world is overpopulated and we need to push abortion and contraception. Why do so many of these individuals seem to have access to the Vatican? Is this something we have to pray about, and what else can we do about it? How do you see the situation?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I think people who are evidently anti-Christian and anti-human, and who promote an agenda against divine and natural law, should not be advisors or counselors of the Holy See. Otherwise, it would be a sign that the Holy See implicitly supports their views. It is a very ambiguous and confusing sign when the Holy See invites such people and gives them a stage to speak. This should not be done. Lay people must address this, express their concerns publicly, and make it known to all, because this is a bad example for the entire church. It weakens the clear witness the church has to give in our days.
Terry Barber: Thank you. I have a question regarding the sexual misconduct crisis in the church. You mentioned the statistic that 80 percent of victims were post-pubescent males. How do you respond to Cardinal Blase Cupich and others who point to the John Jay report and other studies as evidence that there is no causal relationship between homosexuality and clerical sexual abuse?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: This statistic is a fact. We cannot deny facts. When someone denies facts, how can you speak with them seriously? It is impossible to deny facts. This does not mean that every homosexual person necessarily abuses minors, no. But we are speaking about abuse in the clergy. This is a fact, and we have to address it. Otherwise, the problem will not be resolved efficiently or honestly. The denial of this shows that those who deny the connection between homosexuality and clerical abuse are promoting another agenda. That agenda is to promote in the church that homosexual acts and a homosexual lifestyle should be accepted. For me, this is a true, clear sign of an agenda.
Dr. Ed: Bishop Schneider, it seems to many Catholics that there is an unequal application of the law in the church. Men like Cardinal Pell seem to suffer greatly from accusations of sexual misconduct, whereas other prelates who might be guilty of similar things seem to be treated with kid gloves or are even promoted. Can you speak to that, about the inequality within the church regarding the application of the law?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I am not acquainted with every case completely, but regarding Cardinal Pell, I assume he is innocent. The accusations against him were ridiculous. It is a shame for the judicial system to condemn a man based on such weak and ambiguous accusations. Some clergymen who promote the homosexual agenda and moral ambiguity seem to be protected. I do not mean that they themselves have committed abuses; I do not know. I am only speaking of some clergymen in high positions who publicly advocate acceptance of homosexual acts and lifestyle. These clergy are promoted in the hierarchy. This is unbelievable and, for me, a sign that there may exist a kind of clan or clerical group promoting each other because of common, but wrong, views concerning morals and faith.
Terry Barber: Thank you very much for that. That was my next question, and you just answered it. What concrete measures do you believe the summit should have taken to offer real solutions to the problem of clerical sexual abuse, Bishop Athanasius?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: A good doctor or physician must go deeply to the roots of the sickness. In my observation, this summit was more or less a superficial show with beautiful words, partially political, not an approach from the point of view of faith and reality. The deepest roots were not addressed. First, the spread of relativism in moral theology teaching in the church since the council, and the wrong teachings in seminaries and theological faculties. Specifically, the teaching that every sexual act outside a valid marriage is offensive to God, is evil, intrinsically wrong, and damaging to the person because it offends God. This is a moral sin and must be avoided with the grace of God. This is, for me, the first deep root that needed to be addressed and was not.
Second, in seminary training, there is a lack of serious ascetical life, which is necessary. The corporal and spiritual disciplines, like fasting, were not emphasized. Ascetical life is necessary because we are wounded by original sin, and concupiscence exists in human beings. It must be controlled through grace, prayer, and penance. Sin of the flesh is corporal, and therefore corporal penance and abnegation are necessary.
Third, as we already mentioned, the deepest aspect is a deep personal relationship with Christ in prayer and moral life, and a deep love of Christ for seminarians and priests. In my opinion, these roots were not stressed enough.
Dr. Ed: Got it, Bishop Schneider. I understand that. In addition to the privilege of meeting Pope Francis, you also had the privilege of meeting Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. I wanted to ask briefly, for Catholics, it was stunning six years ago when the Holy Father suddenly retired. Some Catholics are puzzled as to why he continues to wear white and is still called His Holiness. You may not be able to say too much, but is there more to this than meets the eye? Do you think there is more going on than what is being told?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, it is evidently confusing for many people in the church that someone who is no longer Pope still has all the external signs and titles of a Pope. It is objectively confusing. I think this should not be done. In the future, the church has to establish precise canonical norms. In the case of a pope renouncing his office, the church must state how he should behave according to these rules. Unfortunately, such rules do not exist in canon law. This is, in my opinion, the problem.
This is the first time in the church that there has been a public situation with, in some way, two Popes. When this time passes, the church will need to establish concrete canonical norms. The church is a monarchy, and ultimately, there is one head. There cannot be two heads, even visibly. This has to be clarified in the future.
Terry Barber: We have a break coming up. I wanted to ask about canon law, since Bishop Athanasius Schneider mentioned canon law regarding sexual abuse. He has some ideas on what canon laws need to be changed to help in that review. You’re listening to the Terry and Jesse show. Dr. Ed Mazza is joining us with Jesse out on the road. We’ll be back with more from Bishop Athanasius Schneider here at Virgin, most powerful radio, the Terry and Jesse show.
Welcome back. Jesse is out of town, but my good friend Dr. Ed Mazza, who does the bar of history for Virgin, the most powerful, is with us. More importantly, we have Bishop Athanasius Schneider with us. We’ve been talking about church issues and the sexual problems in the church. I asked the bishop about canon law. Bishop Athanasius Schneider, regarding zero tolerance for sexual problems in the clergy, do you have any solutions?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, we have to go again to the deepest roots. The problem of clerical abuse must be addressed very seriously at its roots. First, the church must establish a very precise law to prevent men with homosexual tendencies from entering a seminary. This should be prohibited and avoided. Current norms state that only those with very deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be accepted, but this is not sufficient. What does “deeply rooted” mean? It is not precise. How can this be verified?
In any case, if a young man shows or says he has homosexual tendencies, he should, with charity and respect, be sent away and helped, first to be healed discreetly and to live as a good layman. If a seminarian is discovered viewing male pornography, he should be forever excluded from the seminary. People with homosexual tendencies should be prevented from entering seminary because this tendency is objectively a personality disorder and a lack of perception of reality. A homosexual person desires an object of pleasure against nature, which is a wrong perception of reality.
People with disorders, not only homosexuals, should not be ordained. The seminary and priesthood are not places to cure people. Candidates must already be healthy morally, mentally, and intellectually. It would be better to have fewer priests, but good, healthy, spiritual men. This is the first norm, which must be strictly formulated in canon law, which has not yet been done.
Second, any priest, bishop, or cleric who commits even one case of sexual abuse of minors or subordinates should be forever dismissed from the clerical state. These are the two concrete norms I would suggest adding to canon law.
Terry Barber: Bishop Athanasius Schneider, you have a PhD in common sense, and common sense ain’t that common, as G.K. Chesterton said. What you just said makes total sense to me, but I’m wondering what in the world is going on that what you just said should be implemented. But I’m not in management, I’m in sales. I can tell you this, Bishop, if I were voting at the next Conclave, I’d be voting for you, my friend. Do you have another question?
Dr. Ed: I’m sure, yes, sort of a follow-up to that, Your Eminence. The Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith have taught that homosexuality is not a category like male, female, or Italian, Irish, and yet there are bishops and cardinals, even within the church, who treat homosexuality as if it is just some variation, some protected category. I see this as ambiguity at best, or error at worst. Can you confirm that the teaching of the Catechism and of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith back in the 1990s and early 21st century has not changed, that in fact there is no such thing as, metaphysically speaking, a separate category?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, of course. It is completely wrong to make a category of people who have homosexual tendencies. Firstly, it is in some way an offense against human dignity. Human dignity cannot be defined by an objectively personal disorder. To make such a category signifies an offense to the human dignity of this person, because God did not create anyone as homosexual. God created everyone only as a man or a woman. There is no other. God’s creation. The homosexual tendency is a consequence of original sin, among other consequences. So the homosexual tendency is a disorder, as there are several disorders in people. You would not categorize, for example, people who have a tendency to drink alcohol, so alcoholics would not be categorized, or other people with some objective defects. For me, categorizing homosexuals in the worst form, as the so-called LGBT and so on, is only a means of promoting immorality, promoting the homosexual agenda to the detriment and harm of persons, human dignity, and divine law.
Terry Barber: Bishop Athanasius, I have a two-part question. One, Archbishop Vigano’s letters kind of set off this problem in the church, speaking so clearly. I have read everything he said, and it seems like he’s a very holy man who really loves Jesus Christ and His bride, the Church. I really appreciate what he did, so I want to hear what you have to say about Archbishop Vigano. Second, the question about the Dubia from four separate cardinals. Two of them have passed. I want to ask you, because I think it’s important, with all due respect, that the Holy Father answers these questions for the sake of clarity with charity. So number one, Archbishop Vigano. What’s your take on him?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I met personally with Archbishop Vigano a couple of times during the March for Life in Rome, the annual March for Life, and the conferences. He left a very strong impression on me as a bishop concerned with life issues and other issues of church doctrine and church life. From what I have read of his statements, it is evident what he speaks; you cannot deny it. He makes these statements very clear. Now, the case with Cardinal McCarrick demonstrated this because he was dismissed from the clerical state. For me, the Vatican, the Holy Father, dismissed McCarrick from the clerical state. It is a demonstration that Archbishop Vigano’s testimony was correct. His concerns in the church have to be taken seriously. But oftentimes, as happened in history, prophetic voices raising their voices were not sufficiently heard, and in my opinion, it is the same case with Archbishop Vigano. That answers your first question.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, I surely agree with the Dubia of the four cardinals, which they first expressed privately and then publicly submitted to the Holy Father to clarify aspects of Amoris Laetitia concerning communion for those who are divorced and living in irregular, adulterous situations. A clarification is needed on chapter eight, which appears to allow Holy Communion in singular cases to those living in civilly irregular unions as husband and wife, who have not procured a declaration of the invalidity of their prior marriage. Unfortunately, Pope Francis approved norms of some local churches, such as the Buenos Aires bishops’ region, which allow, in singular and special cases, the reception of Holy Communion. Even if these local norms do not represent a general norm in the church, they nevertheless signify a practical denial of the divine truth of the absolute indissolubility of a valid and consummated sacramental marriage. This issue is very serious and has to be addressed with honesty and clarity. We can never consent or be silent in view of the fact that in the Catholic Church today, divorce has been introduced, if not in theory, then in practice.
Dr. Ed: Your Eminence, just to switch gears for a moment, your flock in Kazakhstan is in a former Soviet Socialist Republic. I have a question about the Russian Federation and its promotion of the Orthodox Church, and yet some other troubling things. When we get back from the break, I’d like to ask you about the government of the Russian Federation.
Terry Barber: We’ll be right back after about a 15-and-a-half-minute break. You’re listening to the Terry and Jesse Show. Dr. Ed is filling in with Bishop Athanasius Schneider, and we’ve got some good questions. We’ll be right back.
Actually, Terry Barber and Dr. Ed Mazur are here with Bishop Athanasius Schneider. I’m a little under the weather, but I’m hanging in there. I’ve really enjoyed listening to Bishop Athanasius speak so clearly about our Catholic faith. Bishop Athanasius, I wanted to ask you because you lived in South America. I know that’s where you did a lot of your seminary formation. In October, there will be a synod in the Amazon held at the Vatican. Your Excellency, you lived in Brazil. It’s been said there’s a shortage of priests in the Amazon, which some use to justify introducing married priests. Is it true that such a sacramental crisis and shortage of priests exist? And do you think that is a good solution to the crisis regarding vocations? I want to hear your take on that.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I think this is not true, because I lived in Brazil. The pious people, the simple Catholics, and even the indigenous people in the Amazon region would never think about married clergy by themselves. This idea of married clergy was brought by white people, theologians and priests who may not themselves live a deeply spiritual life as apostles of Christ. Historically, there were regions and times with a shortage of priests, and nevertheless, the Latin Church never introduced married clergy, because Christ was not married, and the apostles followed Him completely. From the beginning, the Church required priests to live in continence. For practical reasons, the Latin Church ordained only unmarried persons or widowers.
I personally experienced this in the Soviet era. We had a shortage of priests, and for some years we had no Mass, but we kept our faith in the family. The family is the domestic church, and we survived well through the family church. When a priest came after a year or two, we made our confessions, prayed, and assisted at Holy Mass. It was not ordinary, but extraordinary, yet very fruitful spiritually. The same applies to the Amazon region. The shortage of priests is not unique to that region today. Promoters of married clergy and the practical abolition of priestly celibacy are using the Amazon situation as a pretext to introduce married clergy. We need another approach. We must stress prayer in families for priests and priestly vocations. A good, celibate, indigenous priest in the Amazon who lives an apostolic life of prayer and sacrifice will transform the people and awaken new vocations, following the way the Church has exemplified for 2000 years.
Dr. Ed: Bishop Schneider, this year is the 90th anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima appearing to Sister Lucia as a nun, saying that the moment had come for the Holy Father, when God asks the Holy Father to consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart, promising world peace if the Holy Father, together with the bishops, does this. Today, Russia is no longer communist. They have built thousands of churches. Yet on the other hand, the Russian government supports Venezuela and Cuba, and socialist Marxist countries. Can you speak to whether Russia has been converted or consecrated? What are we to make of Russia today?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: We have to clarify what conversion means. Conversion means turning to the full truth. Since the Orthodox Church in Russia, the majority are not yet Catholics united with the Holy See, they have not achieved full conversion in the eyes of God or truth. Partly, we can say there is some conversion, because an atheist and formerly communist country now visibly appears more Christian in the Orthodox confession. The Orthodox Church is closest to us; we recognize their sacraments, and they have deep adoration of Our Lady, the holy angels, and the saints, and a religious life in monasteries. They share almost everything with us, except for the primacy of Peter, the Pope.
We also need to consider Russia’s political situation. Western countries, including the European Union and United States, often promote an anti-Christian agenda, promoting gender ideology to undermine marriage and family. This is dangerous. Russia supporting Venezuela and Cuba is, in my opinion, a political stance. The United States and Russia are the two world powers, and Russia uses alliances with other countries to maintain influence. From this perspective, globally speaking, Russia is more in favor of true marriage and family than the official governments of the European Union and the United States.
In any case, the request of Our Lady should be honored. The Pope should do what Our Lady asked Sister Lucia 90 years ago: consecrate Russia explicitly to her Immaculate Heart in union, at least morally, with the entire Episcopal See.
Terry Barber: Bishop Athanasius, I have a question regarding the Amazon Synod scheduled for October. There’s a Jesuit theologian, Father Francisco de Borja, who last week raised the possibility that they could consider changing the matter of the Eucharist in the liturgy, allowing the use of a South American vegetable called yucca rather than wheat and bread. You and Cardinal Burke said, “Wait a minute, that’s not what we have.” I want to understand what’s going on out there. It sounds crazy, but what are they trying to do?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: First, the Holy See has said that this will not be a topic in the Amazon Synod, thanks be to God. Objectively speaking, it is impossible, because the material of the Holy Eucharist was given to us by Jesus Christ, bread, wheat bread. The Church did not invent this, and therefore, since it was the Lord who gave us the material of the Eucharist, the Church has no power to change it.
Terry Barber: We’ve got to take a quick break. We have one segment left with Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Thank you for your clarity with charity. We’ll be right back. For those who are tuning out, thank you very much.
Dr. Ed: Well, actually, it’s Terry and Dr. Ed here for some bonus minutes with His Eminence, Bishop Schneider of Kazakhstan. We’re very grateful to have him with us because he recently met with the Holy Father and with Pope Emeritus Benedict. As a historian, Bishop Schneider, I would like to ask you: many Catholics see the current situation in the Church as parallel to the fourth-century Arian crisis, in terms of countless bishops not presenting the faith accurately, either with error, ambiguity, or silence. In that crisis, St. Athanasius, your namesake, seemed practically the only one representing the tradition of the Church authoritatively and accurately. Can you speak to this parallel?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: We can say this is a parallel, because today the Church is passing through an unprecedented crisis. In my opinion, it is even deeper than the Arian crisis in the fourth century. At that time, the Arian crisis attacked a concrete truth, the mystery of the Holy Trinity. The Arian heresy denied the true, consubstantial Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this way, it denied Christianity ultimately. The secular powers, even though Christian, promoted this heresy, and the overwhelming majority of bishops, out of fear or political correctness, silenced or collaborated with the heresy. Only a few bishops, whom you could count on the fingers of your hand, remained faithful, but at great cost, facing banishment, exile, deposition, and persecution, as did Saint Athanasius and a few others like St. Hilary, St. Basil, and St. Xavius. They were few, but the Catholic faith remained intact among the laity and in families. As Blessed John Henry Newman stated, the purity of the faith of the lay people supported the defects of those who had to teach.
Today, the confusion is general. It is not limited to a concrete truth of faith, as in the fourth century. We are observing and experiencing total confusion in doctrine, dogmatics, morals, liturgy, and spirituality. It is a general attack on Christianity, attempting to transform the Catholic faith into a form of anthropocentric naturalism, adapting Christianity to the spirit of the non-Christian world. This is very dangerous. But as in times of past crises, God intervened and provided means to resolve them. Today, God also has means to correct the situation, especially through the little ones in the Church: Catholic families, faithful youth, good priests, and religious sisters. The Holy Spirit is already preparing this, and this “army” of the faithful is a springtime of grace in the Church.
Terry Barber: Bishop Athanasius, you’re echoing Archbishop Fulton Sheen, who said the laity will save the Church. I might also add that in the 16th century, during King Henry VIII’s reign, Bishop Fisher was one of the few who stood firm. In 1907, the Holy Father issued a document on modernism, which we have on our website. Moral relativism and modernism, would you say modernism has infected our culture and even some of the Church today, Bishop Athanasius?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Of course. This is evident today. Our crisis is the most horrible consequence of modernism, which St. Pius X tried to stop in the Church with his encyclical Pascendi. This text is very timely, and thank you for spreading it. The greatest problem the Church faces today is anthropocentrism, the cult of nature. Instead of placing God’s revelation in Jesus Christ at the center, man’s naturalistic and rationalistic views and desires become more important than the unmistakable commandments and truths of Christ, the Only Divine Teacher. Clergy and laity alike bend their desires and thoughts to override the clear will of God.
As a consequence of anthropocentrism, the historical fact of the Incarnation must be denied or distorted. An incarnate and visible God is disturbing to modern man and many liberal and modernist clergy. Priests, bishops, and cardinals want freedom from a God who is so demanding and so close in the Incarnation and the Eucharist. They want God to remain invisible, vague, and indeterminate, so that man can define good and evil for himself. This can be summarized in their motto: “I will do and think what I want.” This naturalistic and egoistic anthropocentrism is the core of modernism, of Gnosticism, and of other errors, and it has already conquered vast areas in the life of the Church.
Terry Barber: Bishop Athanasius, we have one minute left. Who is your favorite saint? Who do you have a great devotion to?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Of course, besides Our Lady, I venerate very much St. Joseph because he was the chaste spouse of Our Lady and closest to Jesus and Mary. Of course, also my patron saints, like St. Athanasius, the great popes, St. Pius X, and other great saints. I also have great devotion to the little ones, especially St. Therese of the Infant Jesus. This is the army of God, the saints. We have to be united with them.
Terry Barber: Could you give our listeners a blessing?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Dominus vobiscum, et cum, spiritu tuo. Et benedictio dei omnipotentis, Patris et Filii et spiritus Santi descendant, super vos et maneat semper. Amen
Terry Barber: Bishop Athanasius, thank you for taking the time. I hope at least one soul is touched to fall deeper in love with Jesus Christ and His bride, the Church. Thank you for your witness and your clarity in helping us laypeople understand our faith. God bless you and your work.
Terry Barber: I just want to thank everybody who’s listening. This was an extra segment only available online. I agree, we all need to be praying for Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Let us pray together:
Remember, O Most Gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, we fly unto thee, O Virgin, our Mother. To thee, do we come, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not our petitions, but in thy mercy, hear and answer us. Amen.
Our Lady of the Blessed Sacrament, pray for us. Bishop Fulton Sheen, pray for us and for the speedy cause of your canonization.
Bishop Athanasius, thanks again for joining us here at the Terry and Jesse Show. God bless you and your community.