Michael Matt: There’s a sense in which I know your work, and I saw you in Kazakhstan, being very charitable to the Pope, to his face, helping him to see the Kazakhstan peasants and so forth. That was a wonderful example of what we’re called to do. I’m curious because it’s also important, just as important at that very event when he was in Kazakhstan, for you to have said what you said in terms of the dangers of this kind of meeting, which, of course, you had plenty of backing from the constant teaching of the Church to say. My point is that many people took a lot of solace in the fact that you spoke out, because if no one speaks, there is a temptation to despair and to think the Church has gone completely off the rails. I guess I’m asking if it seems like the work of speaking out is not going to push people out of the Church, and if we speak out correctly, in charity but with clarity, it helps people stay in the Church. Is that sort of your intention?
Bishop Schneider: Of course, we cannot leave the Church. We are in the Church. We are members of the Church, and when the Church is suffering, and the Holy See is, to some extent, occupied by forces which are damaging the faith, evidently undermining it, this occupation is a temporal phenomenon. Therefore, we must look supernaturally, knowing the Church is in the hands of God, in the hands of Christ, even in the greatest tempest of the sea, when Jesus is in the boat, sleeping, but in the boat, and the boat cannot sink even in the greatest storm. People must have this vision of the indestructibility of the Church, and we must remain in the Church because we have no other place to go.
We must not create another Church, sect, or independent community. This is not Catholic. Catholicism is always in union with the Pope and the bishops. Even if we must admonish the Pope or make appeals to him and corrections, he remains the Pope, and we continue to pray for him, to love him, maybe even more, because he is in a pitiful situation. What he has to answer for before the judgment of God is frightening. We must have pity for his soul and love him. Pray for him, make sacrifices for him, that he may be illuminated and recognize the errors he is committing. Like John XXII, who had the grace to repent before he died, it would be a great grace. We must implore this for Pope Francis and for other bishops who are spreading confusion in the Church.
We must not shut ourselves in anger and say, No, I will do nothing with this Pope or this bishop. That is not the attitude of a Catholic. It is sectarian, and we must avoid it, even in cases where we say we cannot obey the Pope because he has issued commands that undermine the faith or take away the treasure of the liturgy, which belongs to the entire Church, not to him. In these cases, even if we formally disobey, we obey the Church as a whole, honoring the Holy See while preserving the treasures of the liturgy, which may be temporarily limited by those currently occupying high offices. We must see that the Holy See is greater than a single Pope.
This is for the honor of the Holy See and ultimately for the love of the Pope. One day, he will appear before God, and God will hold him accountable for orders that damaged the spiritual good of the Church, prohibited or marginalized the liturgy of the saints, and caused the Church to lose graces. But God will also see that during his pontificate, some priests did not obey these harmful orders and continued to celebrate the liturgy. Therefore, the Pope’s guilt may be diminished.
We can say to the Pope, Holy Father, even if we are disobeying you, we do so out of love for you, for the Holy See, and for the liturgy of all saints. This will be a consolation to him at the hour of judgment, because we did not collaborate with harmful orders.
Michael Matt: That is beautifully stated. I was thinking about all the people we hear from day to day, around the world, who watch Remnant TV or read our newspaper. What you just said, I would like to clip and send to priests, wondering what they should do under tradition, because it is important for priests and bishops to consider the lay position right now. It is disheartening because not only are families losing their Latin Mass, but I am talking about mothers and fathers with multiple children, who have been driving 45 minutes, 50 minutes, or an hour every Sunday for 25 years to raise their families. Now, even that distant Mass is being taken away for no apparent reason that makes sense to them. Priests who continue to offer the traditional Latin Mass to these faithful Catholics, even through disobedience, help them remain in the Church.
Bishop Schneider: Exactly. Even if these Masses are not formally approved, it is important to pray for Pope Francis and the bishop of the diocese, loudly, so people see we are not schismatic, not a new sect. We love the Pope, but we cannot follow orders that temporarily harm the Church. These priests must have a superior. They cannot be their own Pope or bishop. This is not Catholic. If a priest lacks a superior, he must seek one. He can affiliate with a community or society, such as the Society of Pius X, to have a superior to whom he can be accountable. Otherwise, he risks thinking he is the Pope or a bishop, which is very dangerous. Even if working with a retired Catholic bishop, he must submit to the bishop to receive guidance and give an account until the Holy See restores those who will promote and protect holy tradition.
Michael Matt: It is obviously very important for us to, not unlike the Christians in the catacombs of old, come together.