Dr. Taylor Marshall: You were selected by, I think it was, the congregation of the Doctrine of Faith, correct me if I’m wrong, to be a visitator for the Society of St Pius the 10th. You talked about this in a chapter of your book, Christus Vivit, and I would encourage everyone to read this book. It is an interview account with His Excellency, and I can’t stress how powerful this book is. I wept in the opening chapters as you describe your childhood, your parents, the environment and habitat of faith in which you grew up, in a persecuted society and culture. But in the book, you talk about your encounter as a visitor of the Society of St Pius the 10th and their seminary life. Could you speak to that? What is the status? A lot of people ask, What’s the status of the Society of St Pius the 10th? Is it schismatic, irregular, or non-recognized? Can you share what you shared in the book and maybe add anything more?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Firstly, we have to say, what is schismatic? According to the tradition of the Church, schismatics are people who refuse, in principle, the authority of the Pope. Let us say the Orthodox. They are called not heretics usually, but schismatics because they reject, in principle, the authority of the Pope. Then, the fact of episcopal ordination without papal approval, in the old Canon Law, was not punished automatically with excommunication. Only in the new code of Canon Law did it become a more severe matter. The Church, for many centuries, did not consider ordaining someone a bishop without the Pope’s approval as a systematic act. Church history shows that, for example, in the entire first millennium, the majority of bishops were ordained without asking Rome, without approval from the Pope. They simply ordained bishops while maintaining unity with the Pope, mentioning him in the Eucharistic Prayer, or consulting the Pope in some way, maintaining unity in this way. All these saints we know, St Athanasius, St Basil, were not ordained with the Pope’s approval, and there are many examples. Therefore, this does not pertain to the deposit of faith. The act of ordination can be done in different ways.
In my opinion, we are living in an emergency situation, even after the introduction of the new Mass, which is substantially a kind of Protestantization of the center of our life, which is the Holy Mass. Even if celebrated correctly, the texts of the New Mass, like the operatory prayers, the second canon, and so on, are Protestantizing without doubt. But continuing with your question, Archbishop Lefebvre did not have a true schismatic intention when he ordained because he asked until the last moment for the Pope’s approval. Usually, the Eastern Orthodox or other groups do not ask Rome for permission. Archbishop Lefebvre wrote several letters until the last moment with respect and reverence, asking to be ordained with Rome’s approval. This demonstrates that he did not act with schismatic intention. It is obvious, and we have to be fair, in view of the great tradition of the Church. He also mentioned the Pope during the ordination of the bishops in the canon of the Mass, which proves he maintained the desire to be united with Rome. In specific historical difficult situations, he could not act in any other way, and he did this not to create a new parallel Church but to provide real help and service for the Roman Church itself, for the Popes who, in the future, God knows, will thank him. I am sure this will happen, and now we are seeing this.
Concretely, after Pope Benedict XVI 2009 lifted the excommunication penalty, they were no longer excommunicated. When people are not excommunicated, they are not schismatic. The Church would not have revoked the penalty otherwise. This concerned only the four bishops, not the priests. According to Canon Law, strictly, priests and bishops may have been suspended from celebrating Mass due to a lack of ordination. Now the situation has changed. Pope Francis gave all the priests of the Society of St Pius the 10th the ordinary faculties of confession. How can a suspended priest be an ordinary confessor? It is a contradiction. In my opinion, Pope Francis, by this act, implicitly lifted the canonical suspension, allowing priests to assist canonically in marriages. How can a suspended priest assist canonically in a marriage? It is now possible for priests of the Society of St Pius the 10th to celebrate Mass for spouses when no other priest is available.
Therefore, in this moment, a priest is not suspended while hearing confessions. If he celebrates Mass afterward, some might claim he is suspended, which is absurd. Strict legalism here contradicts the pastoral aim of Canon Law, which is the salvation of souls. Over-stressing the human, positive part of the law risks adopting the mentality of the Pharisees and scribes, which Christ condemned. I consider this a substantial new situation for the Society of St Pius X, after lifting the excommunication of the bishops, granting general faculties of confession, and permitting assistance in marriages. Bishops around the world publicly permit priests of the Society of St Pius X to celebrate Mass in exceptional cases. Many bishops and priests commit blasphemies and sacrileges publicly without punishment, offending our Lord and harming the faith more than the priests of the Society of St Pius X, who piously celebrate Mass, only constrained by unresolved aspects of positive law in this extreme situation.
Dr. Taylor Marshall: I remember Archbishop Lefebvre said, I read this, that in England, they allowed Methodists to have an ordination ceremony, which is invalid, inside a Catholic cathedral. Yet he said we cannot say the Mass for which that cathedral was built. All the private altars around it were built for this Mass, and yet there is a Methodist ordination there, and we cannot say the old Mass. That is a state of emergency.