Paul Thies: Well, Bishop Strickland and Bishop Schneider, I want to thank you both so much for joining me this morning or evening as it were in Kazakhstan. On behalf of the folks who are watching and the folks at home, we are filled with profound gratitude for both of you. If I may, you have shown remarkable and heroic witness for the faith at a time when the Church really needs her shepherds to step up and be clear about what it means to be Catholic. We recognize that this does not come without consequences and challenges. We are very grateful to both of you for being good and holy shepherds. Thank you both so much.
Before we begin, if it is alright with you, I would like to see if Bishop Strickland will open us in prayer, and then Bishop Schneider, when we conclude, if you would close us out in prayer. Bishop Strickland, if you would like to start us in prayer, please.
Bishop Strickland: Sure. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, amen. Mighty God, we thank you for this day as we celebrate Saint Cecilia, a great martyr of the second century, a great witness like all the martyrs of what our faith is in our Lord Jesus Christ, who lived, died, and rose for all humanity. It is a reality as fresh as when Saint Cecilia died so long ago. On this day, November 22, as we commemorate Saint Cecilia, we give thanks for the witness of all the saints and the inspiration to know that our faith is a living faith, vibrant in the light of the resurrection of the Lord and the power of His grace, as vibrant as it was the day He rose from the dead. It is still the truth that guides us, and we pray for those who find themselves in darkness, doubt, and confusion that we may share the light of Christ. We ask your blessing for my ministry and that of Bishop Schneider and all the bishops of the world, that more and more we may grow closer to the Sacred Heart of Christ through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, inspired by the witness of all the saints. We ask this in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Paul Thies: All right. Thank you so much. Both of you have recently published documents to clarify the doctrines of the faith. Bishop Strickland, you released a series of letters to your diocese that were picked up by quite a bit of Catholic media over September and October. Bishop Schneider, you recently came out with a book called Credo, in which you articulate the long-standing doctrines of our faith. Let me ask both of you, starting with Bishop Strickland. Can you tell us about the letters and why you felt compelled to produce them?
Bishop Strickland: Well, as you know, Paul, it began with a letter on the Queenship of Mary on August 22. At that time in August, we were looking to the beginning of the Synod in Rome, which occurred in most of October. What I was hearing in the press made me realize that there were a lot of things being discussed that, honestly, I wondered why they were up for discussion, because they are subtle truths, joyful good news of the message of Jesus Christ. I wrote the original letter addressing that and concerns about the Synod, trying to be clear that the truth we believe, as I mentioned with Saint Cecilia, is not something that has changed or faded away or needs updating in the sense of a real change of its meaning. Certainly, the Church needs to change in the sense that we need to grow closer to the truth of Christ, closer to His Sacred Heart, but the truth remains the same, and it needs to be an anchor and a glorious truth that guides us.
I wrote the original letter and was then inspired to look at the seven points I made in that letter in a bit deeper way. Certainly, nothing is as extensive as Bishop Schneider’s Credo, which is basically a catechism in a question-and-answer format. But I am sure the motivation for both of us was to once again proclaim the truth as bishops of the Church, as successors of the apostles, to guard that deposit of faith and to clarify it for people. I have been gratified, as I am sure Bishop Schneider has, to hear the response. People appreciate great clarity in the faith, and thankfully, we have clear truth. That was the motivation for me, out of concern but also out of celebrating the truth that people need to know clearly and joyfully.
Paul Thies: Bishop Schneider, as Bishop Strickland mentioned, you recently published the catechism Credo. Can you tell us what compelled you to release the book and why?
Bishop Schneider: Yes. It is evident in our day that there is tremendous confusion in doctrine, moral issues, and liturgy, which has penetrated the Church over the last few decades and continues to grow. As a bishop, I cannot be silent and say it is all okay. Thanks be to God, in my diocese, we are safe, but today we live in a media world where the entire world immediately knows everything. Therefore, given this new reality and the unprecedented crisis of faith within the Church, even at high levels of the hierarchy, I felt the duty to speak out, to strengthen the faithful, because it is the duty of the bishop to transmit the revelation of Christ to the next generation and to this generation.
It is inherent to Episcopal ministry. In the rite of Episcopal consecration, there is a word that struck me: the bishop is a doctor of faith, doctor fidei in Latin, meaning a teacher of faith. This is my duty. When I see so many people spiritually starving, I cannot remain silent. Even the Second Vatican Council stated in Lumen Gentium that every bishop must be concerned with the entire Church, the spiritual good of the entire Church, because we are one body. Bishop Strickland and I are members of the college of bishops, and it is our task to proclaim the truth.
I chose the means of a book, a compendium or catechism in a traditional style of questions and short answers. This makes it easier for people to read and addresses issues that today are often confused among the people. My intention is basically the same as Bishop Strickland said: we have to address these issues and cannot be silent. For example, during the Arian crisis in the fourth century, Saint Athanasius spoke for the entire Church even though he was the Bishop of Alexandria, because the denial of the divinity of Christ penetrated the Church at that time. Bishops like Basil, Saint Hilary, and Saint Athanasius spoke to the entire Church.
Paul Thies: Yes, and again, I am not a theologian or much of a historian, but I do believe that many times in Church history, Christ raises up humble shepherds to help defend the deposit of faith. The Church has weathered other storms, and the storms we face now, as many commentators smarter than I have said, are unprecedented. We are very thankful that shepherds such as yourselves are doing this hard work.
Let me ask you both, what is your advice for what the laity should be doing now? I think the laity is paying more attention now than in years past. I know I am. What should the laity be doing now to prepare for potentially damaging changes to the liturgy or to long-held Church doctrines? Bishop Strickland, I will start with you.
Bishop Strickland: Thank you, Paul. I am sure Bishop Schneider and I have answered this question before. People ask, What should we do? Certainly, pray, but also know your faith. Continue to study so that when questions arise, it is very clear that any new answers contradicting the deposit of faith, the ancient teaching of the Church from scripture, magisterial documents, the Catechism, and the lives of the saints like Saint Cecilia, are not the truth. I encourage people to continue to grow and learn in their faith, even if we were not facing this crisis.
I would also encourage entering more deeply into prayer and fasting, taking the spiritual journey seriously. Many people are concerned, confused, or seeing family members stop living an active faith life. Use that concern to learn more and make every day part of your spiritual journey. Go to confession, attend Mass, certainly on Sunday, but as often as possible. The Mass is our most powerful prayer. Christ is truly present, and the erosion of Eucharistic faith is significant today.
Do works of spiritual growth like fasting, praying the rosary, and returning to the basics learned in childhood. Praying the rosary is not childish or only for the elderly. It should be woven into every person’s life, even the busiest. Be creative about finding ways to pray, maybe during commutes or pauses in the workday. Ideally, pray the full rosary at once, but make your life a spiritual journey. Learn your faith intellectually so that when false teachings are promoted, even from the highest offices in the Church, you know they are not true. Form your intellect in the truth of the faith and pray more fervently, taking your spiritual journey seriously.
Paul Thies: And then, Bishop Schneider, the same question. What should the laity be doing for these potentially damaging changes to the liturgy or to long-held church doctrines?
Bishop Schneider: Yes, I think bishops strictly say the basic things already, and I completely agree. I would only add that it would be good for lay people to read the biographies of martyrs from different times. This encourages our faith, our conviction of faith. For example, St. Thomas More and St. John Fisher were confessing the faith within the church because all the bishops of England at that time abandoned the Catholic faith. In this case, concretely, a layman, Thomas More, professed the faith until his death. The only bishop, John Fisher, is just one example, but we can take others. During the French Revolution, there were many examples of fidelity to our faith, as well as the Communist revolution and the martyrs of Mexico, and so on, in our time. So it would be good to read these examples of fidelity to the Catholic faith.
Paul Thies: No, that’s wonderful. And I’d point out for the people at home, neither one of you is advocating leaving the Catholic Church, which, with all due respect to our Protestant brothers and sisters, would probably be the typical Protestant response: you don’t like the church, go find a new church. Rather, what you are advocating, as Bishop Strickland has said on other occasions, is going deeper into your Catholicism, going deeper into the faith, and embracing the cross more. It is so important to build on what you said earlier, both of you, about learning your faith, understanding, and knowing the doctrines of the faith, so you know what you are saying yes to and giving your life to.
We pray for all our bishops and clergy. But there are many schools of thought out there promoting things that seem at variance with 2,000 years of church doctrine, so people need to know why it is at variance and not be fooled or lulled into the spirit of the world. My next question is about the spirit. During this whole Synod and the synodality process, we’ve heard we need to be a listening church and listen to the Spirit. Some people of goodwill may ask themselves, are we supposed to listen to the Holy Spirit or the spirit of the world, the spirit of the age? What spirit is the Synod actually listening to? Let me start with you, Bishop Schneider. How can the laity discern when church leaders are truly led by the Holy Spirit versus the spirit of the world or the spirit of the age?
Bishop Schneider: The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. Our Lord said, I will send you the Spirit of truth, and He will not speak of Himself. This is the characteristic of the Holy Spirit. He will remind you and recall to you all that I have taught you. This is the task of the Holy Spirit, not to introduce new things, but to remind and recall what Jesus taught, to transmit and ensure we do not forget the divine revelation of Jesus Christ. This is also the task of the magisterium. As Vatican II said, the Pope and bishops, when they teach, are not above the Word of God or tradition, but below it.
I would say that if someone is truly faithful to the constant voice of the church, tradition, and holiness, to that extent, he can probably be inspired by the Holy Spirit. But even then, I do not like to claim that anyone is speaking directly from the Holy Spirit. That would be spiritual arrogance to attribute a church meeting or statement as inspired or guided by the Holy Spirit. We must return to modesty and humility.
Paul Thies: Bishop Strickland, the same question for you. How can the laity know when our shepherds are being led by the Holy Spirit, not the spirit of the world or the spirit of the age?
Bishop Strickland: Bishop Schneider has already answered beautifully. He reminds me of what Christ says in the Eucharistic Prayer: Do this in memory of me. It always refers back to Christ, who truly dwelt among us and taught. He is truth incarnate. The Holy Spirit always remembers the Lord. It is so important for us to remember that ourselves. The Holy Spirit guides the church to go deeper into Christ, to know Him more fully, and to examine the issues we face today in the light of Christ, who answered the questions for humanity when He walked this earth, taught, and gave revelation captured in Sacred Scripture and lived in the life of the church.
Another helpful approach is recalling the concept of private revelation. For example, the apparition of Our Lady of Fatima originated as a private revelation. It was not part of public revelation, which is Sacred Scripture and the tradition of the church. When examined, Fatima is judged by looking back at the teachings of Christ and asking if it resonates with what we know of Him. That is how the Church judges private revelations in many instances. We must look back to the roots of the tradition of the Church and trust that Christ is the fullness of revelation. As the incarnate Son of God, He revealed all truth. We always look back to Him to see if something rings true with what He has already told us. If it does not, the Church through the ages says no, this does not authentically correspond to the tradition of our faith.
Paul Thies: When we look at the kinds of changes being considered now and Christ’s mission, His mission did not end at the cross, but it led to the cross and through the cross to His resurrection. Without the cross, there would be no resurrection. Bishop Strickland, I believe you have said before, correct me if I’m wrong, that often these changes being promoted or considered are about making it easier to be a Christian, easier in air quotes, rather than more fully embracing the cross. So my next question is about the cross. Some have said the Church now is going through her passion. The laity and clergy, as the Bride of Christ, are now going through her passion. How do we best embrace the cross and faithfully follow our Lord? Bishop Strickland, I’ll start with you.
Bishop Strickland: That is a critical issue. Christ tells us very clearly: deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me. These three steps are part of being a true disciple. We live in a time when “deny yourself” is so antithetical to the spirit of the age. Today, the message is, “fulfill yourself.” Ironically, fulfillment happens when we follow Christ, deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Him.
The tendency to shy away from the cross or reject it cripples discipleship. The martyrs, like St. Cecilia, whose feast we celebrate today, remind us of the glory of the cross and the great suffering endured because they knew Christ deeply. To try to eliminate the cross is to take Christ out of the faith. We must continually seek to embrace the cross, as difficult as it is. When we embrace the cross and carry it with Christ, it does not make life easy, but it brings deeper fulfillment and a deeper life in Him. Ultimately, that is salvation, eternal life with God. We cannot allow the age to reject the cross, because without it, we do not have the Lord, we do not have His resurrection, and we wander in darkness.
Paul Thies: And Bishop Schneider, the same question for you about how we can better embrace our cross and faithfully follow our Lord
Bishop Schneider: Yes beautifully Bishop Strickland said this and I think we can say this now Bishop Strickland is experiencing this in his own life in front of the entire world the Lord gave upon His shoulder a heavy cross but he accepted it and with this acceptance we pray that we’ll bear many fruits for him and for the entire church I think that of course it is evident that the church is going through her passion because the church is the Mystical Body of Christ and what happened to Christ is mystically also occurring to the church moments of Gethsemane moments of Golgotha but it is connected to the resurrection It is impossible Golgotha without resurrection There is no Golgotha Golgotha is going to resurrection And thus we have to encourage our people to say No we are passing these difficulties under the cross but believe please trust will come the resurrection Surely it’s not for us to know the time when it will come for us it is to do our work as the Psalm said to sow in tears maybe but then to harvest later in joy And so I think we have to be these friends of the cross this is also a mark of our time and to help the people to not react for example with anger on this situation in the church it’s easy to react with anger than to say the Pope is not a pope and so on to go to a kind of set of vacantism and to resolve the problem this is too human It’s basically a rejection of the cross Now we accept the cross with this pope with this time but for love We love him supernaturally and pray for them all for the Pope and those who are unfortunately causing some confusion in the church but they are also members of the Church our brother whom we have to love so but naturally help that the Lord may illuminate them beautiful
Paul Thies: Now my last question for you is really advice from you for the shepherds the bishops and the priests You know especially a lot of the younger priests look to both of you for leadership and guidance and as role models And also I think there are brother bishops out there who are with you maybe in spirit if not vocally for whatever reason maybe they are fearful or whatever I can’t really conjecture but my question is there are a lot of shepherds clergy who have goodwill They love the Lord maybe they are concerned about the state of affairs What advice do you have for them for the faithful shepherds for the days ahead And Bishop Schneider let me start with you and then Bishop Strickland I’ll repeat the question.
Bishop Schneider: Well for the priests I would say the priests have to center on the center of their life This is Holy Mass and really daily to love more Holy Mass When a priest is anchored in the Holy Mass nothing will throw him down He will be anchored on the Holy Mass We have so many examples of priests who were in concentration camps and there they celebrated Holy Mass in very difficult situations but this gave them the strength And so I would say Please dear brother priest love the Mass Improve your manner of celebrating the Mass and make this the center really the Sun of your life the Holy Mass and the interior union with Jesus always and then proclaim the truth always as you can according to the situation It’s different in any place in every place but try what you can in this difficult situation Excellent
Paul Thies: And Bishop Strickland, the same question for you, what advice do you have for the priests and for your brother bishops for the days ahead
Bishop Strickland: Well certainly Bishop Schneider as you would expect gave the perfect answer for priests it’s the Eucharist because the Eucharist is the Lord Body and Blood Soul and Divinity Celebrating Holy Mass is the work of the priest Everything else should flow from that and flow back to that The only thing I would add and it’s helped me to love the Mass more deeply and to strive in every Mass I celebrate to be more reverent more focused more prayerful more humble to just be the best priest I can possibly be every time I celebrate Mass And what’s helped me to grow in that and I still have plenty of room to grow is Eucharistic Adoration to spend time with the Lord who comes out of the Mass and in the tabernacle is there and in adoration for the priest especially for priests and bishops Bishops are still priests and for all the priestly ordained that celebrate the Holy Mass Eucharistic Adoration taking the time to simply dwell in that presence of Christ really present in the form of consecrated bread Body and Blood Soul and Divinity So I think that certainly celebrating the Mass with greater fervor with greater prayerfulness and humility and Eucharistic Adoration at least for an hour a day that is enhancing that ability So it’s back and forth two different fonts of grace that help the priest refocus on the very heart of our lives as priests of Jesus Christ
Paul Thies: That’s perfect and as a perfect note to end on as tomorrow we celebrate Thanksgiving here in the United States And of course Eucharist means in Greek thanks giving So I want to thank you both again It’s such a humble privilege to sit with both of you and to have been able to talk with you today and previously And I’m just very thankful for the heroic witness that you both give to us in this time Bishop Schneider if I may would you be so kind as to pray us to close us out
Bishop Schneider: I would pray the Hail Mary in offering it for the Pope for Pope Francis for Bishop Strickland and for all who are tomorrow in the United States celebrating Thanksgiving that they will be filled through the intercession of Our Lady with all the necessary graces they need in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit Amen Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee Blessed are Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now in the hour of our death Amen Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit as it was in the beginning Now and ever shall be world without end
Paul Thies: Amen, thank you both your excellencies, I really appreciate you.
Bishop Strickland: Thank you, Paul.