The Frontline TV: Joining us right now from Kazakhstan is His Excellency, auxiliary bishop there, Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Good morning to you. Bishop Schneider, good morning. Praise be to God. We are very grateful. It is a good evening for you, but a good morning for us. We are grateful for your time today.
Bishop, I want to start with the rescript that came out of the Vatican on the traditional Latin Mass. I would love to get your commentary there, and then I want to ask you about the Germans, in particular, the bishops who are moving forward. What were your thoughts this past week when we learned that there are going to be further restrictions and the Vatican is taking away the liberty of bishops to make decisions in regard to traditions? What were your thoughts?
Bishop Schneider: This rescript is a demonstration that all the talks about decentralization, which were very common in the last decade since the Second Vatican Council, and all the talks and speeches of the Pope and the Vatican and the bishops about plurality, diversity in liturgy, and welcoming integration of all, are revealed by this rescript as a lie and a contradiction. There is only one category of Catholic faithful in the Church who are not welcomed, who are marginalized and humiliated as second-class Catholics by these measures.
These discriminatory measures are discriminatory, and at the same time, there is plenty of liberty in the Church to do in the Mass what you want. For example, to make the so-called LGBT Masses, you do not need permission from Rome. This is a clear manifestation that the motivations and reasons behind these measures of Traditionis Custodes and the others, and now the new rescript, are simply ideological, that is, a rejection and a contempt for tradition itself, for what was holy and venerated for more than one millennium in the entire Church and by all the saints. This is a huge injustice. We have to say this with respect, but we cannot be silent. I hope, and I am convinced, that in spite of these discriminatory measures, the traditional Mass will continue to grow.
The Frontline TV: Let me ask you how you feel as a bishop to see the Vatican further restrict your authority, your liberty, your role as bishop in a diocese. I know you are the auxiliary bishop there, but as a bishop, it seems contrary to the statements made in the earliest days of this pontificate, which were to decentralize some of the authority in the Curia and the Vatican. It seems like we are seeing the opposite. Now, bishops, who are supposed to be brother bishops and have authority over their diocese, basically have to call the Vatican, the home office, the corporate office, to get permission to do anything. How does that make you feel personally as a bishop?
Bishop Schneider: It is in some way a humiliation of the episcopal office to degrade the bishops to such an extent and to treat them like small schoolboys who do not know how to decide. This is contrary to what the Second Vatican Council established and wanted, which was to give more responsibility to the episcopacy. The bishops are not employees of the Pope. They are bishops by divine right, and they are pastors in union with Peter and his successors. This belongs to the nature of Catholic episcopacy. At the same time, they are true pastors, not vicars of the Pope, as the tradition of the Church teaches. These measures degrade the bishops to employees, to vicars of the Pope in this concrete issue. In other issues where there are abuses and the spread of heresy, the Pope is not controlling the bishops at all.
The Frontline TV: We see a continuation of the points you just made. For instance, Father Rupnik received his excommunication lifted by the Vatican. Yet, we see a persecution of traditional Latin Mass Catholics or Catholics who are pro-life or Catholics who are very orthodox in their faith and zeal. To your point, no one has to ask permission to host an LGBT Pride Mass. Last year, we saw a priest in Italy say Mass in a bathing suit inside the Adriatic Sea. He was standing in the sea and used a flotation device as his altar while teenagers in bathing suits attended this Mass.
As far as I know, he is still a priest and still in good standing. I do not think anything happened to him. We see a double standard about what we can and cannot do. As a traditional Catholic myself, I can tell you I have talked to non-traditional Catholics, clergy members, bishops, and even they cannot seem to understand why we hold on so tightly to traditional forms of piety. They cannot understand why we will not simply come along and join the Novus Ordo. How do you see that, Your Excellency? What do we do? As a lay Catholic, do I have a right to this form of the liturgy, or must I be obedient to Holy Mother Church and come along to the Novus Ordo?
Bishop Schneider: The Church never imposed one strict rule only. Even before the Second Vatican Council, for centuries, there were different forms to celebrate the Roman rite, the Latin rite. For example, the Dominican rite, the Carmelite rite, the rite of the Diocese of Lyons in France, the Mozarabic rite in Toledo, the Braga rite in Portugal, and the Ambrosian rite in Milan. Even inside the Roman rite, these orders had their own variants, and this was considered a richness. So why, after the Vatican Council, which proclaimed the principle of plurality and diversity in liturgy, should we suddenly be narrow-minded and force all Catholics to practice one form? Even the Novus Ordo is not a unique form. It is a vague form because the rite itself has many gaps, and it is not possible to celebrate it in a strict, uniform way all over the world. Every priest has the right to make some private additions, which are allowed by the rite itself.
The nature of the Novus Ordo itself pushes priests toward vagueness. When we choose the traditional form, it is not our own taste. We are obedient to the Mother Church of all ages. The traditional rite is the property of the entire Church. When we do not follow the Novus Ordo, we are obedient to the Church because the traditional form is older, has more weight, more veneration, more saints, and almost all the popes of the last millennium. There are more popes, more saints, and more ages on our side, which has more weight.
The Frontline TV: We have about one minute before we have to take a quick break. What about Eastern rites? Is there a move to make Eastern liturgies more along the lines of a Novus Ordo?
Bishop Schneider: Usually not, but unfortunately, there is an infiltration of the so-called forms of the Novus Ordo in some oriental rites like the Maronite, Syro Malabar, and others. This is to be lamented. They have to keep the integrity of their rite.
The Frontline TV: Hold that thought. Bishop Athanasius Schneider is our guest from Kazakhstan. We are having a conversation about the rescript. After the break, I want to switch topics and talk about Cardinal McElroy and the German bishops who are meeting this week. They have said that in spite of warnings from the Vatican, even a recent one, they are going to move forward anyway. We will get his take on all of that. Bishop Athanasius Schneider is our guest from Kazakhstan. Bishop, welcome back to the program. I saw an article from CNA with the headline saying that, despite a no from the Vatican, the German bishops are moving forward with plans for a synodal council. To the points we talked about in the last segment, it seems these bishops are determined to progress down a very progressive path of thinking about homosexual activity as normal, blessing same sex couples, female priesthood, and more. How are we to react and think about this, Bishop Athanasius Schneider?
Bishop Schneider: This is an omission by the Pope of his responsibility, because one of the main tasks of the Pope is to prevent the spreading of heresies and ambiguities among the episcopacy. He has to intervene as almost all the popes in the past did. He is the supreme pastor, and when he sees that wolves are entering the flock, it is not sufficient to say to the wolves that they should not enter or harm the sheep. That would be unrealistic for a good shepherd. He has to prevent them. The Pope sent them a letter saying not to do this, and now they say they will not obey. The Pope is allowing them to continue. This undermines the authority of the Church and is a collaboration by silence on the part of the Pope through his inactivity to prevent the spiritual poison which these German bishops are spreading among the good Catholics in Germany.
The Frontline TV: Welcome back. I had an internet glitch. We have storms coming into our area. Bishop Athanasius Schneider, I hope you are still on with us. I apologize for the interruption in the power supply. We are hanging out with Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Again, forgive me. I am sorry about that. Maybe you can pick up. I do not know how much people lost, but I wanted to ask you about the hypocrisy involved in the Vatican allowing this to happen in Germany, what we should think about that, and then I want to put on the table before we run out of time Cardinal McElroy in San Diego, who has espoused the idea that homosexuality should be considered normal and okay.
Bishop Strickland called him out on that this past week, using the word heresy. We see that in the Father Rupnik story as well. We see hypocrisy from the top down, calling good evil and evil good. More and more of the lay faithful are getting tired of it. I believe more and more bishops who find themselves in the gray zone, in lukewarmness, are realizing they cannot be there anymore, that they have to take a stand and make their voices heard while they still can. What say you, Bishop Athanasius Schneider?
Bishop Schneider: It is very sad because this cardinal and other bishops who publicly speak heresies are unpunished. They know they will not be punished because Pope Francis has never punished such heretical bishops. On the contrary, Pope Francis has commanded several bishops to be investigated, and zealous, traditionally minded bishops and dioceses are under the control of the Vatican, whereas openly heretical statements are not punished, and even promoted. Bishop McElroy was promoted to the cardinalate even though his statements against the integrity of the faith were publicly known. He was rewarded for this. This is a scandal and a manifestation of the deep crisis in which the Holy See is now. We have to pray that the Pope will again have the illumination of God, the light and the strength to do his task, to strengthen all bishops and faithful in the purity and integrity of the Catholic faith, which is divine and not invented by human beings, and to restore the dignity of the celebration of the Holy Mass and the sacraments. This should be the task of a synod, to issue norms and teachings unambiguously. We have to pray that the Pope will again resume his task.
The Frontline TV: We are down to about one minute left with Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Let me ask one more question. Should the Church debate things that are morally evil, or should we not spend time debating what we know is morally evil and simply state clearly what the Church teaches for the good of souls? What say you, Bishop Schneider?
Bishop Schneider: What is already clear and decided by the Church, like the intrinsic immorality of homosexual acts, is already decided. We have to restate this and give new explanations if needed, but with clarity. This is our task, not to spend time in discussions.
The Frontline TV: Bishop Schneider, thank you for your time. I am grateful to you. Sorry about the power interruption. We appreciate your insight into these issues. Bishop, do you mind providing a blessing to us?
Bishop Schneider: One moment for this benediction. Dominus vobiscum. Et cum spiritu tuo. Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus, Pater, et Filius, et Spiritus Sanctus. Amen.
The Frontline TV: Praise be to God. God loves you, Bishop. Thank you for your time today. We look forward to having you back soon.