Transcript:
Steve Cunningham:
Everybody, Steve, coming at you with a special guest that you probably have already heard of him, Bishop Athanasius Schneider. Your Excellency, thank you for coming on and speaking on this topic, and thank you for your time.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
You’re welcome.
Steve Cunningham:
Now, we’re having some technical difficulties. I’m talking through the phone, people, so bear with us. So first, we’ll get right to it. What is the kingship of Christ?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
The Kingship of Christ is a very evident truth in the entire Scripture, saying that Jesus Christ: the Incarnate God is also the Lord of all earthly realities, not only the Lord of heaven, but also the Lord of this Earth. St. Paul says in his letter to the Ephesians, He became man that all things should be united under the Kingship and ruling of Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Son of God. In First Corinthians, St. Paul says, Christ, in His humanity must rule, oportet illum regnare, in Latin, He must be King. So, the entire creation as St. Paul writes was created through Christ, through the Son, through the Word, and for him all the creation the Father created through Him and all beings were created for Him. Therefore, all realities of human beings, even the social life, was created and meant by God to be under the rule of Christ.
Of course, every reality has its own rules; the spiritual life, the corporate life, the life of our body, and the life of our soul, but nevertheless, both are created for Christ and also for the private, public, and social life of human beings, all are created for Christ. Therefore, in the tradition of the Church, even starting in the first centuries, the Church Fathers said, Christianity is the soul for humanity, as they make comparison with the body and the soul. So we have this famous expression, from a letter to Diognetus, an old text from the end of the second century, saying, we may say that the Christian is to the world what the soul is to the body. The Christianity of the Church is for mankind or for society. The church has always kept this, that the Church of the faith, and the Christianity is for the soul, and temporal, social, and political life is compared to the body. So, church and society have to go together, you cannot divide them, just as the body and the soul together proclaim the glory of God. This is the same as the Kingship of Christ, of course, Christ is the first and He has to be the king which all men have to accept Christ as his kind and Lord through faith and baptism. But, human beings are social beings by nature. Therefore, the entire society has to proclaim Christ and accept Him as the Lord, and there is no other. A society cannot be neutral towards God or it would practically be atheism.
So we have the roots and foundations of the Kingship of Christ which is very clear in Holy Scriptures and in the teachings of the Fathers of the Church and continuously in the text of the magisterium especially the beautiful Encyclical on the Kingship of Christ by Pope Pius XI entitled, Qui Primas, which was written on December 11, 1925. Therefore, we have to accept these teachings and renew them.
Steve Cunningham:
Can a nation survive, in particular, I’m talking about the United States of America without recognizing the Kingship of Christ? The Constitution holds all religions in the states. Can that last?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
No, that cannot last because human beings, may it be individually or the entire society are created for Christ. This is the meaning of creation and when a society rejects Jesus Christ, they cannot last well in peace and prosperity, there will come a period of moral and cultural decay and degradation. We have witnessed this in history, especially in modern history. The Dictatorships and Totalitarian political systems, for example, the French Revolution dictatorship did not survive. There was also a restoration in the 19th century, like the Communist Revolution in Russia, it lasted 70 years but even then it collapsed. It was both in the form of spiritual and economical collapse. The Nazi Regime of Hitler in Germany. Hilter proclaimed, Tausendjähriges Reich, the The Thousand-Year Reich which suggested Nazi Germany would last a thousand years but it only lasted 12 years because Hitler and the Nazi’s directly rejected Christ.
The current modern society after the Second World War is now witnessing complete rejection of Christ and His Church and such society will eventually in time be in chaos and collapse. We could see the chaos recently through several manifestations of violence, instability, and fear during the pandemic and so on. So, the society is showing signs of helplessness and God is showing them that without Him, ultimately without Christ, a society cannot survive.
Steve Cunningham:
You mentioned the “F” word, fear. What can you say to the fellow Catholics out there who are terrified by watching the TV, the Prop, the media, and things like that instead of, I want to say, they are not trusting in God? How do you help them to get over the fear and to trust in God to not worry about things like this?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Yes, a Christian is a believer should never have to fear because we believe that God is with us. There is a saying in Holy Scripture, “If God is with us, who is against us?” So this is a truth with which we have to renew in our souls. Whoever is believing in God is never truly alone because God never abandons those who trust in him. Never! Therefore, who believes is never alone because it is not in the nature of Christ to abandon us especially those who put their trust in Him. A faithful believer is conscious that he is connected with others who believe in Christ— members of the Mystical body of Christ. We are connected, we share one body, the Church, even if we are geographically living in distant places, we are one in Christ. In the mystery of the Church, especially when we receive Holy Communion, we are united with all who receive it worthily. We are together in One body of Christ especially in the most high and intense manner during Holy Communion may it be in the form of Spiritual Communion or Sacramental Communion. Therefore, a Catholic should have the Sacrament of Confirmation to be able to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit especially the one gift, the Gift of Fortitude. It is important because it calls those who are confirmed to be fearless, just as soldiers have to be fearless, we too are called to be soldiers of Christ. We have to be an army without fear because we are the soldiers of a very powerful commander, Jesus Christ, and with our sides are the Holy Angels. Everyone has their own Guardian Angels. We have to be courageous in moments of the trials of today which are passing, reminding us to renew what we have received from the Holy Spirit— the Gift of Fortitude. Even in the Old Rite, the Bishop strikes the confirmed on the face. It is a symbolism, to show you not to be fearful, not be afraid. This is an occasion, for me, to encourage Catholics to renew the gift of the Holy Sacrament of Confirmation.
Steve Cunningham:
Yes, we did a little slap on our face to wake us up. Thank you, but I could hug you for saying fortitude. I haven’t heard of fortitude from anybody. It seems like the last couple months What would you say to people that were accused of pushing your religion on society? You are like legislating morality especially from a Catholic standpoint.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
I would say these issues are not religious issues in the first place. Therefore, the accusation is wrong because what we are doing substantially is not pushing religious demands, instead we push the demands of the natural law of all human beings to have common sense. For example, when we are defending life against abortion, we are not proclaiming religious or Catholic truth in the first place, we are proclaiming the natural law for our people, for all religions, even for the atheists, to not kill innocent and fragile human beings. Another example, when we are defending the sanctity of marriage, the natural order of marriage is for one man and woman. This is inscribed within the being of every human, it is the natural law by God. It is a natural revelation, not supernatural revelation. Of course, we have the same truth and additional confirmation in the revelation of God in the Bible, however this is a supplemental revelation when the Bible states, you must not kill or that God created the marriage as one man and one woman. You see, I think we have to defend the common dignity and value of human beings. So to say that we are pushing our religion in society is a misconception. We are defending human beings and common reason which is the source of stability of a society. Otherwise, a society who supports killing their babies on a mass scale and proclaiming the naturality of same-sex marriage is a society bound to collapse. After some time, they thought we are doing the best for the society, especially in defending life and the traditional view of marriage, but it has really a lot to do with common sense. This has to do greatly with natural reason and the will of God. It was God’s will that He created us and only we find true happiness and peace when we fulfill the will of God in the natural order. So when we are defending life and the sanctity of marriage, we are becoming the benefactors of society as it will continue.
A society that rejects and tramples the law of God and its natural order, such society will not survive and will surely collapse. This has been proven in our history, it is very dangerous to blaspheme God. God is the protector of the natural law, God intervenes with chastisements and punishments which are reasonable. This is written in Holy Scriptures, in Revelation of St. John, God has already given us what he will do. There will be a judgment of God and it will come as mentioned in Holy Scriptures and we need to remind people of this reality otherwise we are betraying humanity when we are silent of God’s judgment especially if we cannot tell when it will come.
Based from the human perspective and experience, if man will continue to offend God, our Lady of Fatima said, God will send a punishment and this punishment will ultimately be for the good, at least to awaken the people not to continue this act. The effect of this punishment from God is to at least to stop these people from doing horrible things.
The good ones are also suffering from this punishment but we are one family with all. The good ones will accept these as a visitation from God in a form of purification of their own souls, maybe of their own sins, and to be prepared better for the eternal life. God says that punishments are all ultimately for the good, good for the church and good for the souls and this persecution is a sign from God for purification. Every persecution, as St. Peter writes in his first letter, is like purifying fire, like the gold is cleansed and purified in fire. St. Peter says, it is through trials and persecution that the Christians are purified in the Church. We have to ultimately see the possibility of God’s punishment in the light of God’s providence that all things have to renew their trust in the fatherly loving providence of God in which He constantly educates and reminds the entire humanity to not forget that this earthly life is only temporal. We are not eternal and perpetual here on this world. We are all created for heaven. Time will come, in the end of the world, God will create a new heaven and a new earth and this is the truth of the faith.
Steve Cunningham:
What do you see? The Consecration of Russia. I’ve been telling people to say if this is peace, I don’t want to see what war looks like. The last 20 years have been anything but peace. Is there anything outside of a drastic miracle that we see coming up in the next 10 years to correct anything?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
I think we have peace, but God will only grant to humanity and to the Church under the condition when we will observe His commandments. If we continue to offend God, it cannot go unpunished. He will grant us peace but we have to make all necessary efforts to invite humanity and society to observe the law of God, at least the natural law. To proclaim Christ to all people with love, not with pressure, but with a loving convincing zeal that Christ is the only Savior, and only in Christ, humanity will have a lasting peace. Only in Christ we can achieve true fraternity because he is the true peace. I think that it is necessary to reestablish the observance of the natural law of common sense and true reason in human society or culture. At the same time proclaiming Christ always and everywhere His love and to accept the invitation in making Christ their King.
Steve Cunningham:
What are some practical steps people can make? People might be listening, saying, Yes, I’m on board. It’s great. But how do I do that? Is there any practical examples, you can give laity, Catholic politicians, etc, of ways to be able to move it to proclaim Christ the King. I’ve taken like Garcia Moreno for example. But are there any other ideas that come to mind that people can do?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Yes, a practical means, it could be that we first need to appeal to the people of goodwill in the society to restore the foundation of the natural law especially in reestablishing the nuclear or natural family and the values of the family. We need to expel from our society genocide of abortion. We need also to spread good literature, this may be in the form of books and conferences on this issue of natural law and the Kingship of Christ of the beauty of a society centered with Christ and the Christian faith. We can try to restore the Catholic culture and beauty, for example, in architecture of the churches, in music, in theaters and all those Catholic inheritance which was preserved for 2,000 years, we try to build this up to renew our society. St. Paul said, “Accept all which is true, which is honorable, which is beauty.” We have also to make some coalitions with good people, even with non-Christians and non-Catholics, because in our current time, this battle is no longer between the enemies of the Church, but this is a battle between the anti-Christ and humanity in its entirety. There is so much at stake with this attack against life and family. I think these are our steps; to build up the Catholic culture, to organize prayer groups, and to proclaim Christ the King. These three steps will help restore the natural law and the Catholic culture together with the association of prayers from people of goodwill.
Steve Cunningham:
Are there any modern areas nations that are doing that or close to doing that or thinking about doing it or is it right now, nobody’s come close right now?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Today, the world is difficult because we are living in a globalized world which promotes anti-Christian and anti-human mentality is spread all over the world and it is disseminated instantly through media and other forms of communications. All people are in some way contaminated with this mentality against natural law and against Christ. But we hope and give thanks to God there are in several countries, especially young people who still preserve the natural instinct of truth and of beauty of the natural law and of reason. These young people are also trying on a social level to reintegrate greatly the Christian faith and Christ. In Poland, there are some groups who want to promote Christ the King publicly, for example, in Hungary, at least there is a government who is promoting family and natural law. There are steps made but they are very few because the entire political scenario became more globalized and interconnected in a way that there is a direct kind of central power. It is truly difficult for an established country but I think in some countries in Europe, the Christians could make a coalition atleast to promote Christian values, the values of natural law and Christian culture. These international coalitions may be in the form of supporting politicians who will promote natural law and people who are in politics and with great influence in the society to promote Catholic culture.
Steve Cunningham:
Would you tell or recommend anybody to basically go run for office, especially to help save society, I guess, but help promote the kingship of Christ as if they have the opportunity if they have the means. And they have the knowledge, obviously, no one just anybody jumping in the idea for? Would you recommend the Catholics to get involved and try to fix or like a word infiltrate, in a sense, politics to be able to change the course of action?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
It depends on the country, I think it would be more difficult in the United States because this country is very secular in their politics and it is also not Catholic. Being a predominantly a protestant nation, protestant tradition never promotes Christ the King as a social kingship. It has always been a Catholic idea and tradition from the time of the New Testament to the Fathers of the Church and the entire 2000 years existence of the Church. However, we can approach these things to our protestant brothers, the meaning of Christ the King, especially this beautiful Encyclical of Pius XI titled Quas Primas. This could help because Catholics alone cannot achieve this in our time to see effects and results, we have to collaborate with the protestant and evangelical believers to help promote this idea to craft this in the society. We need first to approach on a local and regional level, firstly, to dedicate a city or town to Christ and His Sacred Heart. We have to proceed from small steps, but this is already worthwhile even if one village or town will consecrate themselves to Christ, the King and His royal Heart, I would see this as a progress. We take small steps to spread and proclaim Christ the King.
Steve Cunningham:
Yes, that’s an excellent point. Because maybe people get despair if they look at the global idea of it and even that goes through evangelization, right there, start local, your neighborhood, your village, and then eventually it spreads out. I know I thought about getting Michael Davies book on the Kingship of Christ, Tan books has for a bulk for 100 for I think is $1 each, and just pass those out to people. I gave one senator about five years ago. Are there any books besides, I think yours is Christus Vincit, Quas Primas obviously, and Michael Davies book, are there any other books that you would recommend people to read?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Maybe it could be read also the work of St Augustine titled, The City of God. Of course, it is not easy in every part to read this but I recommend this to have a global idea of the victory of the city of God against the city of evil— the city of man. This work of St. Augustine gives us also a realistic vision of what is happening throughout history and at the same time proclaiming its victory. This is a work of the first century but we also have the texts and works in our time that we can read. I also encourage to read biographies of good Catholic Christian Kings, who were really dedicated to Christ the King, like St. Louis the King of France or the life of the last Catholic Emperor Blessed Karl of Austria. We need to spread the knowledge of his life in order to know what he did to encourage people to contemplate that even Kings and Emperors were dedicated entirely to Christ. In 1646, King João IV brought his royal crown at the feet of Our Lady and declared Our Lady the Queen, since then no Portuguese monarch ever wore a crown again. Another good Spanish Catholic politician in the 19th century, Donoso Cortes, was a very committed Catholic politician. Such concrete examples we have to spread their life and writings and encourage Catholic scholars to write books about these examples I have mentioned.
Steve Cunningham:
Final question for you and I’ll let you go is Church and State. I know it’s a pretty new phenomenon from French Revolution times. But what is the role of the state in the Church? We all know that the Church teaches us no separation of church and state. But what is the role? The Church supposed to be on top of the State or is the State on top of the Church? It seems today, the State is on top of the Church and if I’m correct, it used to be the Church telling the state what to do.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
We have to observe the order which God gave and then it will function for the good. When we pervert the order of God, we have chaos and thus there will be no peace and progress. As we have already mentioned in the beginning of our talk, the faith or the Church is a function of the soul towards the human being or society. The soul, of course, unquestionably has the guiding role over the body. In some way, God placed the soul over the body to guide the body. In the same sense God gave the Church, the Christian faith, to give orientation and guidance to the State and with extension to the society but only what belongs to common sense, natural law, and with respect to morality. Both have their competencies and we have to respect the mutual competence, as our soul has to respect all the competencies of our body. For example, when the soul will say, we have to pray for 24 hours. It is impossible, the body would say and further adds, I will not obey you my soul, I have to sleep otherwise I will become sick and I cannot serve God properly. So, the soul must respect the laws of the body but the body also has the respect and obey the laws of the soul. So, when the body will only sleep during the day, the soul will correct it and remind the body to work and to pray. The soul will constantly remind the body of the eternal truth and its realities. Therefore, the Church cannot take the competencies of worldly, scientific, and economic issues of the government or state. So the trends like to worry about climate change and garbages in the oceans, these are the competencies of the government not of the Church. The Church has the competency to remove the trash within its scope but not for its entirety. We have to observe these competencies in which the government has no concrete competency in liturgy. During the pandemic, some government made mandates to the Church regarding distribution of Holy Communion, this is not a competency of the government. This is a proper competence of the Church and the government and state has to accept this moral direction of the Church. The society has the moral duty from natural law to worship God and to give honor God. Otherwise, it will be atheistic and is against nature and divine commandment. How to give honor to God? How to worship God? The government has to ask the Church, what is the true manner to worship God? The Church says there is only one true manner is to adore the Most Holy Trinity: Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost in the Catholic Church. There is only one Church that Christ founded on this earth and this is the Catholic Church. We have to know these. To summarize, the state and the Church or the faith has to go together. We can compare this with a beautiful Encyclical written by Pope John Paul II titled, Fides et Ratio, faith and reason. Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit to the contemplation of truth. A bird has to have two wings in order to fly, this is faith and reason, so as state and Church. The Catholic and true divine method is synthesis and this is the way of God.
Steve Cunningham:
Amen to that, I just forgot about saying thank you for this. Some priests, friends of mine, ended Communion in the hand because of your book at one of their parishes, they introduced intinction and passed out your book to every parishioner at their parish. After about a month or two, they gradually went to regular Latin style, communion, and went away with the intinction. Now there’s nobody out there, nobody at the parish receives in their hand, they’re all kneeling at the altar on their tongue. And I know of two parishes that have done that in this one particular diocese. So not only is Bishop Schneider wrote the book Christie’s Vinci he also wrote this book Dominus est, which is a must read for anybody out there.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
I am in awe and happy that the desire of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist be evermore venerated, respected, and adored both interiorly and exteriorly. As St. Thomas Aquinas said in the Eucharistic hymn, in relating to the Eucharist, dare to do all you can, Quantum potes, tantum aude. The other expression in his hymn which we pray on the last week on the Feast of Corpus Christi, sic nos tu visita, sicut te colimus, it means, oh Lord visit us as we worship you. I, personally, with my family, the Church and the world will extend honor to our Lord in the Eucharist. We must honor our Lord so that he will give us and the entire Church grace.
Steve Cunningham:
Your Excellency, thank you very much for your time. Can we get a final blessing before you go?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Dominus vobiscum.
Steve Cunningham:
Et cum spiritu tuo.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Et benedictio Dei Omnipotentis, Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, descendat super vos et maneat semper. Amen.
Steve Cunningham:
Your Excellency, thank you very much for your time.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
You’re welcome.
