Steve Cunningham: Hey everybody, Steve coming at you with a special guest. You’ve probably already heard of him, Bishop Athanasius Schneider, Your Excellency. Thank you for coming on and speaking on this topic, and thank you for your time.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: You’re welcome.
Steve Cunningham: Now we’re having some technical difficulties, so I’m talking through the phone, people, so bear with us. First, we’ll get right to it. What is the kingship of Christ?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: The kingship of Christ is a very evident truth in the entire Scripture. It says that Jesus Christ, the incarnate God, is also the Lord of all earthly realities, not only the Lord of heaven, but also the Lord of this earth. He became a man so that all things, as St. Paul says in the Letter to the Ephesians, should be united under the kingship and ruling of Jesus Christ, this incarnate Son of God. In First Corinthians, he says Christ, in His humanity, must rule; in Latin, opportet illum regnare, he must be the king.
The entire creation, as St. Paul writes, was created through Christ, through the Son, through the Word, and for Him. All creation the Father created through Him, and all beings were created for Him. Therefore, all realities of human life, even social life, were created and meant by God to be under the rule of Christ. Of course, every reality has its own rules: spiritual life, corporal life, the life of our body, the life of our soul. But both are created for Christ. The private life of human beings and the public, social life are created for Christ, and both, in the tradition of the Church, even from the first centuries, were seen as connected. The Church Fathers said that the Church, or Christianity, is the soul of humanity, making the comparison with the body and the soul.
In the Letter to Diognetus, an old text from the end of the second century, it says that as the soul is for the body, Christianity is for humankind. This is seen from the first centuries, and the Church has always maintained that Christianity is the soul, and temporal life, social life, pand olitical life are like the body. Church and society have to be together. They cannot be divided. They have to be together, like the body and the soul, to proclaim the glory of God.
This is also true for the social kingship of Christ. Christ must first be king in individuals, so every person has to accept Christ as their King and Lord through faith and baptism. But human beings are by nature social beings, and therefore society as a whole has to proclaim Christ and accept Him as Lord. There is no other Lord. Society cannot be neutral toward God; it would result in practical atheism.
This shows the roots and foundations of the kingship of Christ very clearly in Holy Scripture and in the teaching of the Fathers of the Church, and continuously in the texts of the Magisterium, especially the beautiful encyclical on the kingship of Christ by Pius XI from 1925. We have to accept this teaching and renew it.
Steve Cunningham: Can a nation, in particular, the United States of America, survive without recognizing the kingship of Christ? The Constitution holds all religions in the United States. Can that last?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It cannot last because human beings, individually and collectively, are created for Christ. This is the meaning of creation. When a society rejects Jesus Christ, it cannot maintain well-being or peace. There will come a period of decay and moral or cultural degradation. We have witnessed this in history, such as the modern dictatorships and totalitarian political systems.
Take the French Revolution, the dictatorship did not survive, followed by the restoration in the 19th century. The Communist Revolution in Russia lasted 70 years, but then collapsed spiritually and economically. The Nazi system in Germany, proclaimed as a thousand-year Reich, lasted only 12 years because the Nazis rejected Christ directly.
Now, in modern society after World War II, we are witnessing a society that is completely anti-Christian, rejecting Christ and the Church. Such a society will inevitably face chaos and collapse. Recent violence, instability, and fear during the epidemic show that a society without God, ultimately without Christ, cannot survive.
Steve Cunningham: You mentioned fear. What can you say to fellow Catholics who are terrified by watching the media instead of trusting in God? How do you help them overcome fear and trust in God?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: A Christian, a believer, should never fear because God is with us. As Scripture says, if God is with us, who can be against us? This truth must be renewed in our souls. Anyone who believes in God is never alone because God never abandons those who trust in Him.
A believer must also be conscious that they are connected with others who believe in Christ, members of the Church. We are connected like a living body, the Mystical Body of Christ. Even if we live far apart geographically, we are one in Christ, especially when receiving Holy Communion. We are united with all who receive it worthily, and together, we form one body of Christ.
For Catholics, the sacrament of Confirmation gives the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and one gift is especially important, fortitude. Fortitude gives fearlessness. We are soldiers of Christ, and soldiers cannot be fearful. We are an army without fear because our commander, Jesus Christ, is all-powerful, and on our side are the holy angels, including our guardian angels.
Trials today remind us to renew the gift of fortitude we received in Confirmation. In the old rite, the bishop would make a stroke on the face, a symbol to show that we should not be fearful. This is an occasion to encourage Catholics to renew the gift of the Holy Spirit received in Confirmation.
Steve Cunningham: Yes, we need a little slap on our face there to wake us up. Thank you. But I could hug you for saying fortitude. I haven’t heard fortitude from anybody in the last couple of months. What would you say to people who accuse you of pushing your religion on society, legislating morality, especially from a Catholic standpoint?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I would say these issues are not religious issues in the first place, and therefore, the accusation is wrong. If we defend what we are doing substantially, we are not pushing religious demands, but the demands of natural law and common sense for all human beings. For example, when we defend life against abortion, we are not proclaiming a Catholic truth first, but the natural law for all people, for all religions, even atheists, the natural law not to kill innocent and fragile human beings.
When we defend marriage as the union of one man and one woman, this is inscribed in the being of every human being by God in natural law. It is natural revelation, not supernatural revelation. Of course, there is additional confirmation in the Bible, but that is supplementary. We defend the common dignity and value of human beings. We are not pushing religion on society; we are defending humanity and common reason. A society that kills its own children on a mass scale and enacts laws against nature, such as redefining marriage, will surely collapse. By defending life and natural marriage, we are actually benefactors of society.
Steve Cunningham: Such a society will not survive. It will collapse. History shows this, and also salvation history.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: When humanity blasphemes God or rejects Him in natural law, God will intervene. These are the chastisements and punishments God sends. This is written in Scripture, in the last book of the New Testament, the Revelation of John.
Steve Cunningham: God has already shown us what He will do, and He will act.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: The angels of punishment are described in the Apocalypse of St. John. This will come. Scripture says there will be a judgment of God. We must remind people of this reality. Silencing this truth would betray humanity. We do not know when this judgment will come, but observing human history, if humanity continues in sin, as Our Lady of Fatima said, God will send punishment.
Steve Cunningham: Ultimately, the punishments of God are for the good, to awaken people so they do not continue doing evil.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Of course, the good also suffer, but we are one family. The good will accept this as a visitation from God, as purification of their souls, to prepare them better for eternal life. God sends only some punishments, and from these, He ultimately brings good, also for the Church and the souls. In situations of persecution or divine punishment, the Church is purified, as Peter writes in his first letter: trials and persecutions purify Christians like gold in fire.
We must see possible punishments of God in the light of His providence. God has all things in His hands. We must renew our trust in the loving providence of God, who educates all humanity. Remember, this earth and life are only temporal. We are not eternal here. We are created for heaven, for Paradise, for Beatitude. At the end, the world will end, and God will create a new heaven and a new earth.
Steve Cunningham: What do you see regarding the Consecration of Russia? I’ve been telling people, if this is peace, I don’t want to see what war looks like. The last 20 years have been anything but peaceful. Is there anything outside of a drastic miracle that we might see in the next 10 years to correct anything?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: I think peace will only come from God and will be granted to humanity and to the Church on the condition that we observe His commandments. We cannot continue offending God and expect peace. Therefore, we must make every effort to invite humanity and society to observe the law of God, at least the natural law.
We must proclaim Christ to all people with love, not pressure, but with love, conviction, and zeal, so that they recognize Christ as the only Savior. Only in Christ can humanity have lasting peace, only in Christ can true fraternity be achieved. Peace comes from Him.
First, we need to re-establish observance of natural law, of common reason, and of human society. At the same time, we must proclaim Christ everywhere, always with love, inviting people to accept Him as their King.
Steve Cunningham: What are some practical steps people might take? People may say, “Yes, I’m on board, it’s great,” but how do I do that? Can you give practical examples for laity, Catholic politicians, or others to proclaim Christ the King? I’m thinking of Garcia Moreno, for example, but are there other ideas?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Practically, we could start by appealing to people of goodwill in society to join us in restoring fundamental values. The foundation is natural law. First, re-establish the natural family and its values. Gradually reduce the culture of abortion. Spread good literature, books, and conferences on natural law, the kingship of Christ, and the vision of a society centered on Christ and the Christian faith.
We should restore Catholic culture, the beauty of architecture, churches, music, and theater. We have inherited 2,000 years of Catholic culture. We should rebuild it and share with others everything that is true, virtuous, and beautiful.
Coalitions with good people, even non-Christians, are essential. Today, the battle is no longer just between the Church and its enemies; it is a battle between the Anti-Christ and humanity itself. Life and family are at stake.
Finally, organize prayer groups to proclaim Christ the King. So, the three steps are: uphold natural law with people of goodwill, restore Catholic culture and values, and build associations of prayer.
Steve Cunningham: Are there modern countries or areas doing this, or close to doing this?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Today, the world is difficult. We live in a globalized society, and anti-Christian, anti-human mentalities spread instantly through mass media. Many people are influenced by this mentality against natural law and Christ.
However, in several countries, especially among young people, the natural instinct for truth, beauty, and natural law remains. Some groups are working to reintegrate Christian faith and Christ into society. For example, in Poland, there are groups promoting Christ the King publicly. In Hungary, the government promotes family and natural law. These are small steps.
Because politics is increasingly globalized, it is difficult for a single country to act alone. Perhaps Christian countries in Europe could form coalitions to promote Christian values, natural law, and culture, and support politicians committed to these principles.
Steve Cunningham: Would you recommend that Catholics run for office to help save society and promote the kingship of Christ, if they have the means, opportunity, and knowledge? Obviously, not just anyone, but those prepared for it.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It depends on the country. I think it will be more difficult in the United States because it has a very secular political tradition and is not Catholic. In the Protestant tradition, they never promoted Christ the King as a social kingship. This is a specifically Catholic idea, rooted in the New Testament, the Church Fathers, and the 2,000-year Catholic tradition.
However, we might approach our Protestant brothers and share the meaning of Christ the King with them, especially using Pius XI’s beautiful encyclical Quas Primas. This could help build a coalition, because only Catholics alone will not achieve significant results in our time. We need good Protestant or evangelical believers who also promote the idea of Christ the King in society.
At least locally, we can begin small, dedicate a city, town, or village to Christ, to His Sacred Heart, so that He becomes the King of their hearts and of their community. From there, this dedication could expand to a county or region. Even if only one village proclaims Christ or consecrates itself to Him as King, it is already progress. We must take small steps to spread and proclaim Christ the King.
Steve Cunningham: Yes, that’s an excellent point. Many people get overwhelmed when they look at the global idea. Evangelization starts locally, your neighborhood, your village, and then it spreads outward. I’ve thought about getting Michael Davies’ book on the kingship of Christ, Tan Books has it in bulk for about $1 each, and passing them out. I gave one to a Senator five years ago. Are there any other books you would recommend besides yours, Quas Primas, and Michael Davies’ book?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: You could also read St. Augustine’s City of God. It’s not easy for everyone, but it gives a global vision of the victory of the City of God over the city of man. It presents a realistic view of history while proclaiming ultimate victory.
We can also read biographies of devout Catholic rulers who were dedicated to Christ the King. For example, St. Louis, King of France, or Blessed Emperor Karl of Austria. These examples show how rulers lived and acted entirely in devotion to Christ. There are also Portuguese kings in the 16th or 17th century who placed their royal crowns at the feet of Our Lady, declaring her queen. From then on, Portuguese kings no longer wore the crown because it belonged to her.
Concrete examples like these could inspire people. Catholic scholars could write books compiling examples of devout politicians and rulers. For instance, a good Catholic politician from the 19th century is the Spanish figure, Nozo Cortez. Presenting their lives and writings can encourage people to follow their example.
Steve Cunningham: Final question, Church and state. I know the modern concept is relatively new, dating from the French Revolution. Today, it seems the state is above the Church, but historically, it used to be the Church guiding the state. What is the proper relationship?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: We must observe the order God gave, and then everything functions well. When we pervert God’s order, we have chaos, no peace, and no progress.
The faith and the Church function like the soul in relation to the human body. The soul guides the body, and the body respects the soul. God gave the Church a guiding role over the state and society, but only concerning moral and natural law. Both the Church and the state have competencies they must respect.
For example, the Church cannot manage purely temporal or scientific matters like climate change or garbage disposal; these are the state’s responsibilities. The Church’s competence is moral and spiritual, addressing sin and guiding the faithful. The state, in turn, must accept moral guidance from the Church, especially in promoting worship of God and upholding natural law.
There is only one true Church, the Catholic Church, established by Christ. The state must consult the Church on matters of true worship. In sum, Church and state must work together, like reason and faith, a bird requires two wings to fly. The Catholic and divine method is a synthesis of Church and state, nature and grace, reason and faith. This is the order God intended.
Steve Cunningham: Amen to that. I just want to thank you. Some priest friends of mine reintroduced Communion on the tongue because of your book. At one of their parishes, they handed out your book to every parishioner. After a month or two, they gradually returned to the traditional practice of kneeling and receiving on the tongue. Now, nobody in the parish receives in their hand. I know of two parishes in that particular diocese where this has happened. So not only has Bishop Snyder written Christopher Vincent, but he also wrote Dominus Test, which is a must-read for everyone.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Yes, we should be happy and desire that Christ, our Lord, in the Holy Eucharist, be more venerated, respected, and adored, both interiorly and externally. As St. Thomas Aquinas said in his Eucharistic hymn, “Do all that you can, or dare, to give Christ as much honor as you can.”
Steve Cunningham: This is the Quantum Focus in Latin, and the other expression is from his hymn, which we prayed last week on the feast of Corpus Christi.
It means, “O Lord, visit us now, personally, my family, the Church, and our world, with graces in proportion to how we honor You in the Eucharist.” Honor our Lord in the Eucharist, and He will give grace to the entire Church.
Steve Cunningham: Your Excellency, thank you very much for your time. Can we get a final blessing before you go?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Dominus vobiscum, et cum, spiritu tuo. Et benedictio dei omnipotentis, Patris et Filii et spiritus Santi descendant, super vos et maneat semper. Amen
Steve Cunningham: Thank you very much for your time.