Michael: And welcome back to this week’s edition of Mic’d Up. Joining me now is our executive producer, Matthew Pearson. Matthew and I had the great pleasure of interviewing Bishop Schneider in Rome last month. Yes, of course, the interview that we’ve had up on the site for a couple of weeks has received tremendous responses, so we decided to come on and talk about it.
We do have a funny background story. We were supposed to be in Rome the day before, but there was a problem with the flight. We had to call Bishop Schneider and say, “Your Excellency, we’re going to be landing in Rome at nine in the morning.” He had to leave Rome, where we were to interview him, at one o’clock. So we landed, dashed into the Da Vinci bathroom, changed clothes quickly after that long flight, and went rushing with 400 boxes, suitcases, and everything else. We poured into the building, got the interview set up, and Bishop Schneider walked in. We said, “Hello, Your Excellency.” He said, “Michael, nice to see you. I have to be gone at one.” It was noon. Yeah, yeah. We had just under an hour. But it was a tremendous interview. He’s so gracious.
Matthew: Yeah, it was a solid time. The things he talked about were great to hear from a shepherd of the Church. You don’t hear that anymore, unfortunately.
Michael: It’s tremendous. Well, we’ve got some highlights here that we want to talk about. One of the things, even as I asked Father Lewis in the earlier segment, we were talking about the devil and hell, and this silly attitude that everybody goes to heaven, as if hell doesn’t even exist. Or if it does, you don’t have to worry about it at all. It’s just something in a book.
Matthew: Yeah, and the other side of this coin is that people are afraid. They’re afraid that if they accept the reality of hell, they won’t be able to live righteously. It’s really a blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. They’re not trusting in God’s grace. That’s what it comes down to. They don’t really have faith in God’s grace. So they say, “Oh, if this hell thing is real, if we have to fully accept that most people are damned, and that there’s a good chance I’ll be damned, if the default of humanity is damnation,” there’s fear there. But the hope is in the crucifixion, which people don’t really believe in. Unfortunately, that’s what I get from this whole confusion that’s reigning, which is what the clip is about.
Michael: Sure, well, let’s go ahead and roll the clip. We’ll take a look. I asked Bishop Schneider what about all this business about everybody really going to heaven?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: It is a joke with the eternal destiny of a human soul. And when a clergy member speaks in such a manner, saying all don’t bother, don’t be afraid, you all go to heaven, this is very irresponsible. I even consider it a great sin against the love of neighbor.
Michael:
You know, it was very fitting for him to use that word irresponsible. You and I both commented that it really nails it, doesn’t it?
Matthew: It’s just like letting your children play in traffic. I mean, it’s that level of irresponsibility. You find a kid at a sporting event or a carnival away from their parents. Mistakes happen, but every person who sees a child running around immediately thinks, what’s wrong with these parents? How do you lose your child? How are you so irresponsible as to not give proper guidance, to not care enough to nurture and protect them? That’s what’s happening in the clergy when it comes to basic spiritual matters. It’s really sad. There are times when parents say things to children they won’t like for a little while, but it’s for their own good. Our pastors, our priests, need to do the exact same thing. If they don’t, it is irresponsible, 100%.
Michael: One area that is not really a shock for viewers is the issue of homosexuality in the clergy, and the tepid or lukewarm responses from some clergy to a culture embracing same-sex marriage and related issues. We asked Bishop Schneider about that, and you could sense his holy disgust.
Matthew: Yes, and his observations are very keen. Right at the beginning of the clip, he brings to light how disordered the communication is between bishops, priests, and the people regarding sin. How manipulated and nuanced it is. One thing the Church has always been is clear, because it has to be. We are the voice of truth on the entire planet, and we must speak clearly. That clarity has really gone off the rails in the last few decades. But in the magisterium of the Church, in canon law, these things are laid out very clearly, where human error does not manipulate them. The Church is clear and always has been.
Michael: Let’s roll the clip and hear from a good bishop.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Of course, we don’t speak about this topic every day. We have to be prudent and use common sense. When we do speak on this topic, we must do so clearly, of course, with politeness, but clearly. I have the impression that every time the topic of homosexuality is presented, bishops often excuse themselves, back out, or apologize before they start to speak. They say things like, “Please excuse me, we first want to express our deep veneration and respect for these persons.” Well, it is clear that we must have deep respect, but deep respect should not be exaggerated.
Michael: We recently did a Vortex episode on this. There’s this over-the-top attitude: you can’t offend people with same-sex attraction. And we said, What about all the other people in the Church who need help and attention? How many single mothers are struggling? Why is there always this idea that we must worship at this altar? Bishop Schneider picks up on it. He asks, Why does deep respect for one group overshadow concern for everyone else?
Matthew: Exactly. It’s a keen insight. The language is always so massaged, it doesn’t come out clearly. People need the truth. There’s nothing wrong with saying what someone is doing is wrong. Later in the clip, he says it: it’s against reason, against nature, and against the will of God. What more do you want?
Michael: Exactly, what do you want from me? The truth can be offensive, but it is necessary.
Matthew: And later, he emphasizes that this is love of neighbor. The people who truly don’t care about homosexuals are the ones who want them to remain in that lifestyle. They don’t care that these souls are in danger of damnation if they don’t turn from their actions. Claiming offense in this context is a satanic manipulation. We have to be clear.
Michael: There is a hell. People go there. The Queen of Heaven and the King of Heaven have told us that. We see it manifest in all kinds of spiritual warfare. There’s no way around it. But we’re running out of time, so I want to get to this last section. Bishop Schneider had brilliant observations on the crisis in the Church. Let’s hear him.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider: Today, we see an almost general crisis of relativism reigning inside the Church: doctrinal, moral, and tremendous liturgical anarchy. This is a grievous crisis for me. But in every crisis, God provides solutions and instruments, often simple, often beginning with hidden realities, small ones. Over time, God renews His Church. In our time, I observe, in many parts of the world, the beginnings of this renewal. Slowly but clearly, this is the work of the Holy Spirit. No one can hinder the Holy Spirit, not even a cardinal or bishop. The Holy Spirit uses the small and humble in the Church to renew it. I hope we proceed with patience and much faith in this work of renewal of our Holy Mother Church.
Michael: It’s a tremendous message of hope from Bishop Schneider. Traveling around, we see the crisis firsthand, but we also see signs of hope in the people we meet and the families we visit.
Matthew: Exactly. Growing up, we’ve only known the Church in crisis: broken families, divorce, pornography, kids out of control in high school. But history teaches us that the Church has endured multiple crises, as Bishop Schneider described. Even the current issues, including the crisis caused by homosexual acts among clergy, are part of that reality. These acts are disordered, against nature, and historically have wreaked havoc in the Church.
Michael: Absolutely.
Matthew: But no matter the crisis, Arianism, other heresies, or scandals, the Church survives. The Holy Spirit works through the humble, raises new leaders, and bears new fruit. Our Lord is infinite; the fruit He bears will continue. Bishop Schneider ends the interview on a powerful note: we are in a period of restoration. Thanks be to God.
Michael: Bishop Sheen used to say he wanted to live during the crisis because that’s when one can fight back. We now have incredible tools and technology to aid the Church, until authorities try to take them away.
Matthew: The full interview is available for Premium Members at ChurchMilitant.com. If you don’t have a subscription, you can download the free podcast or wait until next month when the full video is released. For just $10 a month, you help us restore the Church. Everyone wins.
Michael: Well said. Who knows what St. Paul would have done with all these tools?
Matthew: Oh yeah, no kidding.
Michael: Matthew, thank you for joining us. As always, we wrap up with a prayer to St. Michael from our sister organization, St. Michael’s Media. Please join us.
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits who prowl the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Thank you for joining us. We’ll see you again next week on Miked Up. Make ChurchMilitant.com your homepage. God loves you.