Transcript:
Dr. Robert Moynihan
You told me yesterday that you were with Pope Francis in a meeting with other Bishops from the former Soviet Union. And you spoke at that meeting about the document of Abu Dhabi, which speaks of the different religions as willed by God and you spoke eloquently about it and how that was a delicate moment. How did Pope Francis answered you and how did you answered Pope Francis? I thought it would be quite interesting if you could recreate what happened at that meeting?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider
Yes, because it was the Ad Limina visit of Bishops in the region of Central Asia. One month after the Abu Dhabi trip.
Dr. Robert Moynihan
When was it exactly?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider
It was in the beginning of March 2019. There was a very dangerous phrase in the Abu Dhabi document which the Pope signed which made it impossible for a Christian to agree with such formulation. It was formulated ambiguously at least and highly erroneous.
Dr. Robert Moynihan
So you are saying one phrase in that document is something you find erroneous?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider
Yes
Dr. Robert Moynihan
So you brought this up?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider
Yes. It is stated that God wants the diversity of the sexes, diversity of nations, people, language, and cultures. And in His wise will, he wants the diversity of these which were enumerated simply as well as religions, the plurality of religions. So, you cannot put on the same level the diversity of human sexes, men and women, to the reality of marriage which God created in his good will. We cannot put all the diversity of nations at the same level as the effects of God’s will in the diversity of religions.
Dr. Robert Moynihan
So what happened at the meeting?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider
No, I am only concluding with these statements. The diversity of religions is included in that document which means wrong religions— idolatrous religions, God never wanted this as the same level as the diversity of human sexes, of the two sexes. This is written in one phrase and this is wrong, we cannot state this in one level and we have to formulate it in another way. Therefore, I asked the Holy Father, at the beginning of the meeting, he was kindly and fraternally. He, himself, started to speak about the document in Abu Dhabi. He said to us, you are free to express your opinion, and I expressed my opinion since the Holy Father invited us to speak and I said to him, Most Holy father, I’m very concerned about this phrase, which I have mentioned and quoted from a while ago, in the Abu Dhabi document and I ask you to retract this phrase because it relativises the uniqueness of our Lord Jesus Christ as the only way and the only religion willed by God. I ask you to proclaim this to the entire world so that the people today of our time will understand that this proclamation came from the words of the successor of St. Peter. This was my short contribution. The Holy Father thanked me and gave a response. He said, the diversity of religions has to be understood as the permissive will of God. This permissive will of God is an expression with an etiology that means that God in some way tolerates this understanding but does not positively will it directly. Several negative realities in human life and those recorded in history are tolerated or permitted by God, for example, our sinfulness is permitted by God because he does not want to force our freedom. This is the permissive will of God. Then I answered and asked again, Holy Father, the diversity of the human sex, man and woman, is not the permissive will of God, since this phrase is in one phrase along with the others enumerated. The Holy Father said, yes, this phrase could be misunderstood. So, he answered my question in the presence of the other bishops. On April 3rd, the Holy Father spoke in the general audience about the diversity of religions and also said that the theologians explained this permissive will of God. At least, he spoke about this publicly and I think it should be and could have precisely explained more to the general audience what does this permissive will of God means and it would have been good also that he would have mentioned the Abu Dhabi document. However, he did not mention this document but only spoke about the diversity of religions and the permissive will of God but at least he did this and because of this I am grateful to him. But in my opinion, it was not sufficient and it could have been explained more clearly.
Dr. Robert Moynihan
Well, thank you for that description of your meeting with the Pope and your request for a very specific clarification.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider
I want to add that after this, the Holy Father was so kind, and he sent me a personal card. He was writing to me in Italian, Caro Fratello and so on, asking me to pray for him. In the letter, he attached a photocopy of his speech in his general audience on April 3. He personally underlined the word “permissive will of God” in this photocopy. So, at least he sent me personally the photocopy of his speech and a nice card.
