Transcript:
Raymond Arroyo:
He is the auxiliary Bishop of Astana, Kazakhstan and he’s a well known defender of traditional church teaching. He joins me this evening to share his thoughts on the synodal path through liturgical reform, and his soon to be released book, the Catholic mass. Please welcome Bishop Athanasius Schneider back to the program. Your Excellency, thank you for being here. I want to start with some important news. I spoke earlier with Edward Penton about the recent developments at the German synodal path. As we mentioned, a dozen statements were being considered including the blessing of same sex unions and even one that seems to question the need for an ordained priesthood. This week’s plenary session was called off due to a lack of quorum, too many bishops stuck around to the end of the meeting making it impossible to conduct business. What do you make of this so-called synodal path? And does this slow down indicate some resistance.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
As you know, the path or a synod has the aim to strengthen the faith, and to clarify the faith to defend the faith. This was ever since the aim of the apostles of a synod, to transmit the integrity of faith. Now, what we are witnessing in Germany, with the synodal path is contrary, it is an evident and direct denial of the divine truth in the case of homosexuality and the hierarchical structure of the Church which Christ gave us. So for this we have to resist this work of the destruction of faith.
Raymond Arroyo:
The German Bishops have now extended that synodal path to 2023. They say, the path and these action items are necessary to reinvigorate the Church after the sex abuse crisis, etc. Do you believe that capitulating to the world, catching up if you will, with the times is the best way for the Church to engage the German faithful or any faithful.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
No, always when the church capitulates before the world, it is becoming weaker. We have to be the contrary, we have to acknowledge the evil which infiltrated inside the Church. Nevertheless, we have to be confident and have the sense of security that the truth remains. We have to start a renewal of the life of the priest, the life of the faithful, and to the new families, this is our task and we should not be intimidated by the world. The Church will always remain a church of sinners, but at the same time, a church of saints. We have to continue to proclaim the truth of God and the beauty of the holy and chaste Christian life.
Raymond Arroyo:
In your mind, Archbishop, what is needed now, not only in Germany, but all over the world to reinvigorate the church and to make her relevant to the Catholics in the pews, which I think is part of the aim here this Synod?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
The most important and urgent thing is to return to Christ, to the truth, to turn to the Lord again, to his revelation, which we received from the apostles and the saints throughout the two millennia in which the Church handed over to us the beauty and integrity of the Catholic faith. Thus we have to reinstate the centrality of God, of his word. The centrality of Christ in the liturgy, to give Him absolute priority and only then the Church will have a more fruitful spiritual mission and evangelization in this time.
Raymond Arroyo:
Archbishop Schneider when one looks at the synod’s and they’re going on really for the better part of a year or two, it seems there’s an attempt here to reposition Vatican II and redefine it if you will, after the clear definitions articulated by John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who were actual men of the council, we should mention is that what’s happening here? Some have suggested that may be the case.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Yes, the synodal path is an attempt and a tool to transform the Church or the local Churches in groups of discussions according to the parliament style, this is a foreign approach to the tradition of the Church. We have to establish the truth or to seek what we have as the truth which we have received from the Apostles of the Church. We have to restate the beauty of the Catholic faith in light of the truth. In this time, it should be the task of the Ecumenical councils and of Synods. Therefore, I hope that, in this process of a so-called synodal process in these years, there will also be voices heard from the faithful Catholics, who love the faith, the liturgy, and the holiness of the Church of all ages.
Raymond Arroyo:
Since we last spoke, Pope Francis released his Motu Proprio, Guardians of the tradition, placing restrictions on the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass worldwide. What do you make of the rationale for that Motu Proprio at this moment? And have you observed any abuses that had been alleged to be tied to the old mass?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
In my experience, I had a lot of great experiences visiting communities, parishes, and families who have an attraction and love of the traditional liturgy. I could not really observe what Pope Francis accuses to these people as to be divisive and hostile towards Vatican II. There could be singular cases as to every community however this accusation is based on the pretext evidence. Behind this Motu Proprio there is an agenda and this decisive rejection of the tradition of how the Church prayed, not only for a century but for a millennium, this traditional rite existed before the Council. Tridentine Rite and Order of the Mass is after the Council of Trent which brought so many fruits in the lives of the saints. This traditional rite is expressively stressing the centrality of God, the eternity, the sacredness and therefore, it could that this kind of Mass will transmit and proclaim the truth, the eternal, the supernatural and grace is seen as an obstacle for the agenda, and now, unfortunately, is promoted by the Holy See. This agenda primarily promotes temporal and earthly things and the existence and spread of such rite, Christocentric, is seen as a reproach from those high ranking church men who chose their earthly and temporal agenda a priority. This could also be a possibility to understand further the background and purpose of this Motu Proprio.
Raymond Arroyo:
Speaking of the liturgy, you have a new book coming out in January, The Catholic mass steps to restore the centrality of God in the liturgy. Why did you feel you had to write this book now? I mean, it seems prescient in the midst of all this liturgical upheaval and questioning.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Yes, I think that we have to be very honest in going to the roots of the crisis. In general, the deepest root of the crisis within the life of the Church since the Council, which has reached its culmination, is precisely that man puts himself in the center and Christ was put aside. This is a problem in a special manner, this anthropocentric attitude is manifested daily in the manner of the celebration of the Holy Mass, especially in the Novus Ordo, in which it is celebrated towards the people and is really a demonstration of the whole man being designed as the center of life and prayer. This is, for me, the deepest case of the crisis. We have to return and give to Christ the proper proceedings and primacy which is essential in the manner of celebrating the liturgy, through this, there will be healing in the crisis of the Church.
Raymond Arroyo:
You divide the book into 12 chapters, each explaining what the Catholic mass is: a prayer, its ritual, thanksgiving, sacrifice, etcetera. These chapters really are a series of interviews, correct? Why did you decide to structure the book this way? And what was the most important aspect of the mass that you wanted readers to understand?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Yes, we have to understand the meaning and essence of the Holy Mass, and from these flows out the manner and behavior of the rites. Therefore, as the classical philosophical motto says, agere sequitur esse, doing flows being. They have to show all the richness and meaning of the Holy Mass. I would start with the first topic, the mass is adoration. This is the first meaning of our being upon creation and will be all eternity, our first task to adore God along with the holy angels in heaven. This was the primary intention and aim of the Sacrifice of Christ on the cross; the adoration, the veneration, and the glorification of the Father of the Holy Trinity. He did this through His ultimate Sacrifice out of love for the Father and for us, and He redeemed us from sin by this supreme act of adoration and love. Therefore, the Holy Mass is a substantially inseparable redemptive Sacrifice of the highest and most sublime adoration of God. We have to stress this and from this flows out our salvation and graces of transformation of our lives and Holy Communion.
Raymond Arroyo:
Archbishop Schneider, Benedict XVI, established in Summorum Pontificum, that the ordinary form and the extraordinary form are one rite, the Roman Rite, how should the two forms coexist in your opinion?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
Well, we have to honestly say that the Traditional Rite and the Novus Ordo are quite different. I think, more or less to say that both belong in the Great Roman Rite, however, the Novus Ordo made changes drastically which makes it really different and it is kind of two rites. Pope Francis, in one of his recent interviews he states, those priests who now want to celebrate the Traditional Mass are being compared in some kind of bi-ritualism. Pope Francis mentioned that some Latin priests can celebrate the Byzantine Rite, he gave them the indult to be bi-ritual. The Pope slo compares the Traditional Rite form of the mass and the Novus Ordo, in this case, to be different forms of rites. I think, in the future, both rites should become closer and become one rite or perhaps maybe with some small difference, but substantially, the Novus Ordo has to go back to the essence of the Traditional Rite of all times.
Raymond Arroyo:
Give me a sense before I let you go, what is your great hope that readers will come away with from your book, the Catholic Mass, when it’s published in January, what’s the message you want them to take away? Then the reason we wrote it?
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
My hope is that the faithful and the priests will read this book to discover again the richness, both spiritual and doctrinal, of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass which Christ gave us as the greatest gift for His Church here on earth. They can also discover the beauty of this Rite of the Holy Mass, how to celebrate and how to behave yourself during the Holy Mass. It will unite us deeper with Christ and to be truly grateful to this unspeakable gift which Christ left for us. His holy Sacrifice on the cross is the Holy Mass; His Body and Blood which nourishes us on our journey to eternity. So, this is the intention of my book; to strengthen the priesthood and the faithful, to discover the beauty of the Holy Mass, and bear good fruits in their daily lives.
Raymond Arroyo:
Bishop Athanasius Schneider I thank you for being with me. The Catholic Mass, steps to restore the centrality of God in the liturgy is available from Sophia press. It’ll be available in January bookstores everywhere. They should thank you for being here.
Bishop Athanasius Schneider:
God bless you.
