Bishop Athanasius Schneider: The Role of the Laity Amid the Chaos of Our Times

Interview Organization: PCh24TV · Polonia Christiana
Date: September 15, 2017
Bishop Schneider recalls Saint Hildegard’s prophecy that laypeople would teach priests amid a weakened hierarchy. He urges the faithful to study traditional catechism, pray for the Holy Spirit’s guidance, defend the faith respectfully, and avoid extremes like sedevacantism or blind papal infallibility, citing Saint Catherine of Siena’s courageous papal corrections.
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Transcript:

Well, I remember Saint Hildegard of Bingen. She was proclaimed a Doctor of the Church by Pope Benedict. You’ve heard of her, Saint Hildegard of Bingen, from the 11th and 12th centuries. She had many prophetic gifts from God.

I recall that she once wrote a phrase saying there would come a time when simple lay people would teach priests. Of course, this seems very strange. It might appear not very Catholic, or even against the principle of hierarchy. But to me, this describes the situation we have reached today.

The Church is a living Mystical Body. As with our human body, it exists in unity. When one part becomes weak, the other parts must support it. This is the law of any living organism.

Now, in our time, the hierarchy has become weak and, in some ways, even sick. The head has become sick. And now the members of the faithful must bring new life, new blood, to the head, so that it may regain strength. To me, this is the role of you, the laypeople, to support the clergy and the hierarchy with the faith that you know.

How can you support the clergy? You can and must study the catechism of all times. Take a good catechism, preferably one published before the Council. You can find them online or in antique editions. In those, you will find 100% certainty, 100% security, on all these very important issues. Or read the famous papal encyclicals written before the Council, especially those of Pope Leo XIII, Pope Pius IX, Pope Pius X, and Pope Pius XII. There, you will find very clear explanations of the Church’s tradition not only from the 20th century, but from the full tradition of the Church.

For example, when Pope Pius IX, in the 19th century, spoke about the necessity for Christ to be recognized by all society as King, by politicians, and by all, that is traditional teaching. That comes from Holy Scripture.

So first, study these documents well. That is your first task. Then, please pray every day, humbly, that the Holy Spirit may produce fruits in your life through the Sacrament of Confirmation, which you have received. In Confirmation, you received the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit, all of you, as laypeople: the gifts of wisdom, knowledge, strength, and so on.

So ask humbly, “Holy Spirit, please renew in me the gifts of my Confirmation, that I may recognize deeply and clearly the truth, and that I may defend the truth.” This is the second task. And then, you must spread the truth. I am to write in some different manner today, with the internet, with radio, television, and with booklets. So please, defend the faith, especially in those points which are attacked today.

The first commandment, You shall not have other gods, is under attack through false ecumenism, which is destroying the first commandment. Then, the moral law, especially the sixth commandment and other moral laws, and the Holy Eucharist, this is the sacrifice of Christ, it is the Holy Eucharist.

I think these three points are the most attacked and disfigured in our time. So, please spread this. And then, another point, another step, you can make coalitions, organizations, together to collaborate in the defense and spreading of our faith.

When you hear or read that some bishop is saying nonsense or heresy, then you have to stand up with respect, not with polemics. Always use very kind words, but be clear and say, This is not the doctrine of Jesus Christ. This is not the doctrine of the apostles. What you say, my excellency, is not the doctrine of the Fathers of the Church.

So, I would like to advise you to correct him with respect. This is my proposal, which you can follow. We always have to keep the supernatural spirit. From the human point of view, the human being is always inclined to extremes, and extremes are the easiest way.

For example, in this confusion, I am observing since this pontificate that even good Catholics are drifting into the so-called sedevacantism. You know this? This is the heresy which says that the Roman chair is vacant. Someone says, after Benedict, it is vacant, so Francis is not the real Pope. So, it is easier for me to reject him. He is not the real Pope, so I have no problems when he says these crazy things; he is not the Pope. This is a very easy way and, of course, the wrong way.

Or others say, Oh, everything the Pope says is from God, is infallible, and therefore you must not raise your voice to criticize. This is not Catholic. If it were so, we would never have the very salutary correction of the Apostle Paul, never, or Saint Catherine of Siena.

You know Saint Catherine of Siena, Doctor of the Church. She loved the Pope very much, but she criticized him in a very strong way. In her time, there was a Pope, one of the most questionable examples, Urban VI. Even so, he was not a heretic. Doctrinally, he was correct, but in his behavior, maybe in some way, he was a crazy man. Urban VI, in the time of Catherine of Siena, was corrected by some cardinals, and he beheaded them.

He punished them. They were beheaded. Cruel. At least today, Cardinals like Burke and others have no danger of being beheaded when they make corrections to the Pope, maybe spiritually, but well. It was a disaster for the Church, and Urban VI was ultimately responsible, also for the big schism that followed.

Saint Catherine was so concerned. She wrote several times to the Pope, urging him to change his behavior, to repent, to convert. Finally, she wrote him a letter and said: Most Holy Father, you are for me the sweet Christ on earth. But if you do not change your behavior, please renounce the papacy. Renounce.

And this was said by a Doctor of the Church, Saint Catherine. It was an extreme situation. She loved the Pope, but she was a woman, and she was not afraid of ecclesiastical clericalism because she was a woman.

To another Pope who wanted to return again to Avignon, she also spoke. And finally, she succeeded in bringing the Pope back from Avignon to Rome. But then he saw that Rome was very dirty, full of ruins, and he longed for his beautiful palace in Avignon. He decided to leave Rome and return to Avignon.

Saint Catherine wrote him, Holy Father, you must not leave Rome. If you leave Rome, you will die. The Pope said, Oh, this crazy woman, I don’t believe in her. But the Pope went back to Avignon and died. There were exceptional saints in the Church, even in these times. But she did all of this out of love for the Pope, out of love for the Church. And this, I mean, I don’t know if I answered your question, but… well.